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Financial prep - don't rely on Social Security

slimmer13

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If I could opt out of SS, and put that money (which I'll never see and I'm pissed about) into my 401k or Roth 401k which my company matches $.50 on the $1.00, I could probably retire 10 years earlier.

It blows be away how people want the government to do things for them, when it is completely incompetent at pretty much everything.
 

GWS

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Well, it's not like you have a Choice a bout Social Security.
We get it taken from us without our having any say, so I, for one am getting back as much as I can.
 
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GWS

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2ndtimer

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I am delaying filing for social security to keep our income down so I can convert more of our traditional IRA holdings to Roth IRA at the lowest tax rate possible. Retired two years ago at 62, my wife will be joining me at the end of this school year. She will take SS immediately, along with her pension and we will see how long we can hold off filing for my SS benefit (higher than hers), while we convert pre tax retirement assets to Roth (tax free).
Of course, if the system does fail, I have invested in the truly precious metal: lead, brass, copper and primers.
 

CountryGent

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If I could opt out of SS, and put that money (which I'll never see and I'm pissed about) into my 401k or Roth 401k which my company matches $.50 on the $1.00, I could probably retire 10 years earlier.
Ditto. If I could opt out, I would in a New York minute. And I've been paying into the POS system for over a quarter century, but I know I can get better results in my retirement portfolio and it has the feature of, you know, not going to be bankrupt before I retire.

It blows be away how people want the government to do things for them, when it is completely incompetent at pretty much everything.
Agreed. I find it staggering as well, particularly circa 2019. If a private institution grossly mismanaged funds in this manner, the Feds would be all over them. .Gov does it and we're all just supposed to smile and take it.

Oh and Oregon is going to have a state level one in place soon enough. You can opt out ... for now. Let's see how long that lasts. :rolleyes:
 

11Charlie

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This whole SS thing is a load of crap. My mom paid in here whole life and passed away after only collecting for 4 years. How many times does that happen and the money is still not going to be there. Screw that its all a bunch of bubblegum!!!
 

GWS

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This whole SS thing is a load of crap. My mom paid in here whole life and passed away after only collecting for 4 years. How many times does that happen and the money is still not going to be there. Screw that its all a bunch of bubblegum!!!
That's really the plan. Actuary tables tell them that people live only so long and they base things on that.
IIRC the average number of year a person collects Social Security is a surprisingly low number.
 

USMC1911

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Best thing you can do is talk to a financial advisor and a tax planner. Wealth is not generated by luck its generated by hard work and planning. Not all debt is created equal. Perfect example is financing a car/truck. NEVER would I pay cash as that capital is much better used making more money unless your credit is poor. 5% on the loan vs 8ish% return on the S&P 500 is a no brainer imo. I am heavily leveraged into equity's and real estate. While I do have an old 401k, and a couple different pensions they are not the only path to retirement. At age 41 now my working years are half over so I am starting to hedge my risk more and more every year. I was lucky and had some dry powder in 2010 and was able to buy/finance a comercial property in Portland. Sold most everything I had and took almost all the equity out of my house to make it work but the risk reward was at a level that made sense. I looked at it as a once in a lifetime opportunity. Fast forward almost 10 years and wow was it a great decision and has allowed me to buy two other comercial properties. Lots of paths to retirement but you must have a plan.
 

USMC1911

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Just for fun some quick examples.

$100,000 30 year home loan at 5% interest rate.

At the end of the term $93,256 in interest will be payed on the loan.

Take that same $100,000 and instead of paying cash for something you put it into a S&P 500 fund. For this example we will use the historical return of the S&P over the last 90 years (9.8%) and deduct 20% of that return for argument sake and it comes to 7.84%

Lets take that $100,000 at 7.84% over that same 30 years= $962,490:eek:

Same $100,000 over 30 years at the SAME intrest rate the loan you would get to buy something at 5%

$100,000 at 5% over 30 years = $432,194

Compounding intrest is your friend.
 

USMC1911

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The break even point on a home loan at 5% versus the stock market is about 2.25% If you can't find a way to make that your not trying.
 

USMC1911

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Let's try another example.

Say we invested in the S&P say March of 2000 literally weeks before the start of the .com bust. Say we've held that investment all the way till today through the .com bust and the financial meltdown of 2008. The total rate of return for that period is close to 115%

1799e31167498fe7c3eb4c577874873f.jpg
 

CountryGent

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Just for fun some quick examples.

$100,000 30 year home loan at 5% interest rate.

At the end of the term $93,256 in interest will be payed on the loan.

Take that same $100,000 and instead of paying cash for something you put it into a S&P 500 fund. For this example we will use the historical return of the S&P over the last 90 years (9.8%) and deduct 20% of that return for argument sake and it comes to 7.84%

Lets take that $100,000 at 7.84% over that same 30 years= $962,490:eek:

Same $100,000 over 30 years at the SAME intrest rate the loan you would get to buy something at 5%

$100,000 at 5% over 30 years = $432,194

Compounding intrest is your friend.
The thing is, you still need a roof over your head.

When I bought my current house/property, I was paying $1645 per month for a lease on a house on a quarter acre in Hillsboro. Same size as my current house, newer, but harder to heat and cool. Naturally, I was building no equity there.

Then I bought this property; house on ~20 forested acres with a 2kSF shop. I started with $70K down, another $10K closing costs and misc $$$$ for other things. Leaving me a mortgage of $282K to start, with a payment of $1700 per month. In 7 years I have paid about $140K for interest, principal, taxes and insurance in monthly payments. I put another $25K in improvements into it (mostly paving the road and the driveway, and some landscaping).

So I have about $255K into it and I still owe $240K, but the house and property are now worth about $450-$500K, and I have sold about $120K of timber off the property with two timber sales.

If I sold the property tomorrow for $450K, I would have $210K cash out (ignoring any fees to an agent), plus the $120K in timber income, for $350K back out if when it is all added up. I would count that as about $100K tax free profit, plus living here for free basically. Also, I got to deduct the property taxes and interest from my income taxes each year.

IMO that is a pretty good investment, plus I actually own where I live, so I can pretty much do what I want with it - I don't have to answer to a landlord. I live on a mountain surrounded by trees. If I want a dog or a cat or both, I can have them. If I want to go out and shoot off my deck, I can (and sometimes do). If I want to cut down a tree, I can, and sometimes do. No annual house inspections, no one telling me I have to mow my lawn, no one telling me I can't work on my car in the driveway.

And all of this, I not only get for free, but I actually make money on it in the long run.

So yeah, IMO, a better investment than putting money into the stock market - although I do that also because putting $25K per year into my 401K reduces my tax rate and the amount of income I pay tax on, while at the same time making an average of about 7% per year on that investment.
 

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