Finally got my CHL. Got some questions.

[Flopsweat]

You have a very positive outlook on the situation which I respect. But in my opinion you give criminals way too much credit. Nowadays having a gun on your hip is no longer a deterrent. At least not in metro areas. It makes you more of a target than anything.

You and I agree. I think an open carried gun usually has more liabilities than advantagescompared with a concealed gun. In my response I devoted 1 1/2 lines to a single possible advantage of open carry compared with concealed, which was in direct response to the question I was responding to. Then I spent about fifteen lines on multiple reasons why I think open carry is disadvantageous compared to concealed carry. And in fact these days I only carry concealed.

Everybody and their brother have a theory on the safety of open carry, but I never see statistics to back up either side. My take is that there is zero statistical evidence to say that open carriers are disarmed by criminals with any frequency. It seems to me that if it were a thing, the anti-gun crowd would be posting every single instance they could get their hands on.

All I've seen so far are studies by anti-gun groups with their attendant lack of facts or torturing of statistics. Everytown, for example, goes with the "well everyone knows it's dangerous" bit. Pat Morrison cherry picks areas that had increases in crime after open carry was permitted, ignoring other areas where it went down, and especially ignoring that violent crime overall was increasing nationwide during that same time period. Basically, they're just taking their favorite deceptive anti-gun techniques and applying them to open carry specifically. If anyone can find a responsible study done on the subject, I'd love to see it.

I open carry where I feel comfortable doing it, which is not in most big cities. I'll occasionally open carry on the way to the gun range, which is right between two medium sized cities. If I had a car lot I think I'd open carry there no matter where it was. I open carry a lot in the woods unless we're riding ATVs. If I fall off it's one less thing to snag on something on my way to the ground.

 

[OldBroad44]

Everybody and their brother have a theory on the safety of open carry, but I never see statistics to back up either side. My take is that there is zero statistical evidence to say that open carriers are disarmed by criminals with any frequency. It seems to me that if it were a thing, the anti-gun crowd would be posting every single instance they could get their hands on.

All I've seen so far are studies by anti-gun groups with their attendant lack of facts or torturing of statistics. Everytown, for example, goes with the "well everyone knows it's dangerous" bit. Pat Morrison cherry picks areas that had increases in crime after open carry was permitted, ignoring other areas where it went down, and especially ignoring that violent crime overall was increasing nationwide during that same time period. Basically, they're just taking their favorite deceptive anti-gun techniques and applying them to open carry specifically. If anyone can find a responsible study done on the subject, I'd love to see it.

I open carry where I feel comfortable doing it, which is not in most big cities. I'll occasionally open carry on the way to the gun range, which is right between two medium sized cities. If I had a car lot I think I'd open carry there no matter where it was. I open carry a lot in the woods unless we're riding ATVs. If I fall off it's one less thing to snag on something on my way to the ground.

@Flopsweat , I think you are right that we are all just guessing as to the way various bad guys or crowds or rioters might respond to seeing a good guy with a gun in various contexts. However since our lives may depend on our guesses, and our guesses may be all the info we have, it's worth our while think about the question using nothing but our own ability to infer or guess the point of view of others, including bad guys. That is, we use our skills at theory of mind, something we humans excellent at.

 

[Horatius]

I am of the mindset where I open carry in the woods or range (where allowed) and concealed in populated areas. If I am attacked by a bear or wolf pack or cougars (OH, MY!) I want my firearm easily drawn and used. While communing with 2 leggers I prefer to be less noticed and perhaps underestimated...as opposed to first target noticed. just my 2 pennies

 

[Lazyfaire]

First rule of CHL: Don't tell anyone you have a CHL.

And I would add, if someone asks you if you are carrying (say, a friend who is just curious), get in the habit of NEVER giving a response to the question. Neither a yes or a no. Its not anyone else's business (unless they are a badged law officer.

 

[Member 53328]

And I would add, if someone asks you if you are carrying (say, a friend who is just curious), get in the habit of NEVER giving a response to the question. Neither a yes or a no. Its not anyone else's business (unless they are a badged law officer.

Even to a cop I would say no. Unless getting searched or put in hand irons. I never tell LEO that I have a handgun on me or in the vehicle during interactions. That's just me though.

 

[Flopsweat]

And I would add, if someone asks you if you are carrying (say, a friend who is just curious), get in the habit of NEVER giving a response to the question. Neither a yes or a no. Its not anyone else's business (unless they are a badged law officer.

I am in the habit of gently and politely telling people that while I didn't expect them to know this, it is considered rude to ask such a question. It has always gone well for me.

 

[Lazyfaire]

Even to a cop I would say no. Unless getting searched or put in hand irons. I never tell LEO that I have a handgun on me or in the vehicle during interactions. That's just me though.

I would just reply that I have a license to carry.

 

[OldBroad44]

Even to a cop I would say no. Unless getting searched or put in hand irons. I never tell LEO that I have a handgun on me or in the vehicle during interactions. That's just me though.

In Oregon when a cop runs your car tags he gets info that you have a CHP if you do. You aren't required to volunteer the info either that you have a CHP or are carrying as far as I know. But if hes a real cop and has run your tags, he knows whether you have a permit. As to whether you are required to answer or answer honestly if asked, I don't know. Seems to me if so it would cancel freedom from unreasonable search or seizure, so shouldn't be true. But I'm no lawyer. Nor do I think refusing to answer would be either my inclination or the most trouble-free option if he appears to be a real cop wearing a uniform, driving an ordinary police car, and who has pulled me over in a city where there are lots of witnesses.

But what if he's a fake cop pretending to be a cop for the purpose of abducting young women? And I'm on a remote road far from any witnesses and the car that has pulled me over just has a temporarily mounted light on top rather than is a regular police car? And I was not speeding or doing anything else illegal? When I was a young broad I was much more worried about serial murderers pretending to be cops than real cops. Seems like doing pretend traffic stops and pretend arrests off on more remote roads and highways might be the perfect MOs for serial rapist-murderers. I wonder what proportion of successful serial killers are successful because because they are pretend cops.

 

[Member 53328]

In Oregon when a cop runs your car tags he gets info that you have a CHP if you do. You aren't required to volunteer the info either that you have a CHP or are carrying as far as I know. But if hes a real cop and has run your tags, he knows whether you have a permit. As to whether you are required to answer or answer honestly if asked, I don't know. Seems to me if so it would cancel freedom from unreasonable search or seizure, so shouldn't be true. But I'm no lawyer. Nor do I think refusing to answer would be either my inclination or the most trouble-free option if he appears to be a real cop wearing a uniform, driving an ordinary police car, and who has pulled me over in a city where there are lots of witnesses.

But what if he's a fake cop pretending to be a cop for the purpose of abducting young women? And I'm on a remote road far from any witnesses and the car that has pulled me over just has a temporarily mounted light on top rather than is a regular police car? And I was not speeding or doing anything else illegal? When I was a young broad I was much more worried about serial murderers pretending to be cops than real cops. Seems like doing pretend traffic stops and pretend arrests off on more remote roads and highways might be the perfect MOs for serial rapist-murderers. I wonder what proportion of successful serial killers are successful because because they are pretend cops.

Like you said. They will automatically know you have a CHL when they run your DL and possibly even your plates if the vehicle is registered to you. But when they ask if I have a gun in the vehicle I am not always honest. That is none of their business and I have the utmost respect for LE. Now if I'm getting searched or put in hand irons then I would immediately disclose that information.

 

[Mikej]

I started this thread asking about CHL laws. For everyone who said "don't tell, don't show" etc., that's not a law. I also think if someone chooses to open carry, presuming legal, it's their choice and good for them. People shouldn't shun others for open carry, that's what the media does, don't be like the media. They have clearly convinced people that open carry is bad. Do some people get harassed by the police for legal open carry, yes, but just like mass shootings, it happens less than people think.

Would I open carry around town, no. But I'm not going to ridicule someone who has the balls to.

Potland has changed drastically in the last 10 years. Just since 2016 it's changed completely, ceasing to be the open, accepting, cool place it was when I moved here in 1983. A person has that freedom to carry that gun open, but it's foolhardy in my opinion. The large majority of potlander's now fully believe that a gun on your side means your looking to shoot someone. And they'll want to save a life and call police.

 

[OldBroad44]

Actually, I was including myself among the rude crude NWFA bast!ds, @Horatius. I certainly don't consider crudeness, rudeness, or being bast!d's limited to any particular age or gender.

Being unruly is essential too. Part of what makes NWFA interesting is the large number of somewhat unruly members. Even our mods are mostly somewhat unruly. One of them was even muttering about maybe needing to ban himself recently. Ruly is strictly following all the rules, which is next door to boring, unoriginal, and predictable. The somewhat unruly tend to stretch some of the rules a bit. I proudly count myself among the somewhat unruly, in NWFA and the entire rest of life. The trick is to be usefully unruly. That is, to provide useful info on the topic but to take things totally sideways here and there. Good for laughs, good for entertainment, and good for helping us all to relate NWFA info to the rest of life.

 

[Flopsweat]

Being unruly is essential too. Part of what makes NWFA interesting is the large number of somewhat unruly members. Even our mods are mostly somewhat unruly. One of them was even muttering about maybe needing to ban himself recently. Ruly is strictly following all the rules, which is next door to boring, unoriginal, and predictable. The somewhat unruly tend to stretch some of the rules a bit. I proudly count myself among the somewhat unruly, in NWFA and the entire rest of life. The trick is to be usefully unruly. That is, to provide useful info on the topic but to take things totally sideways here and there. Good for laughs, good for entertainment, and good for helping us all to relate NWFA info to the rest of life.

Absolutely, unruliness is an essential component of any civilized society. In addition to keeping things interesting as you said, it helps keep the rule makers in check, and encourages those around the unruly to be more assertive. And it gives the hot chicks someone to get all worked up over.

 

[Horatius]

I think of myself as a benefit to rule makers as I help them find the gray areas of the rule book

 

[oremike]

No matter what "they" say or think, Portland is not Oregon, or at least not the Oregon I know.

 

[Cavedweller]

Even to a cop I would say no. Unless getting searched or put in hand irons. I never tell LEO that I have a handgun on me or in the vehicle during interactions. That's just me though.

I would just reply that I have a license to carry.

Like you said. They will automatically know you have a CHL when they run your DL and possibly even your plates if the vehicle is registered to you. But when they ask if I have a gun in the vehicle I am not always honest. That is none of their business and I have the utmost respect for LE. Now if I'm getting searched or put in hand irons then I would immediately disclose that information.

This is an important aspect of having a CHL. As has been stated above, if you get stopped and they do the normal check of your license, registration, and plates, they will know you have a CHL. I haven't been pulled over in years, but there was a time after I first got mine that for some reason I got pulled over several times for relatively minor reasons (burned out headlight, broken tail light, failing to use my turn signal at 11:00 pm when there were no cars around (except the cop apparently), etc. etc. Stuff like that. Anyway, it was crazy for a year or 2. I thought the powers of the universe were after me for some reason. I guess I was what you would call a statistical anomaly for a while.

I will preface the following advice by saying that I do not routinely carry, only have the CHL "just in case" and so I can have loaded guns in the car when I travel for various reasons.

Anyway, the first time I got pulled over after having my brand new CHL I didn't know the cops had any expectation regarding being informed, and after the guy ran his computer check and came back to my car he gave me a real attitude. Chewed my butt. So when I got home, I called the sheriff's office and said, "What's up with that? Am I required to tell them by law I have a CHL?"

The answer was "No, but they appreciate being told."

A lot of people will say, never tell a cop at a traffic stop "I have a gun." That is probably good advice. But what I have done since my first unpleasant encounter is not say anything and hand them my DL and my CHL at the same time. They have always very courteously handed back my CHL and asked if I had a gun in the car. Since I usually don't, I have mostly said no. But when I have had one I tell them. Sometimes they have asked where it is, and I tell them, and they have gone about their business. I have never had a problem doing this, and have always been treated calmly and courteously.

So, that's my advice.

 

[Flopsweat]

This is an important aspect of having a CHL. As has been stated above, if you get stopped and they do the normal check of your license, registration, and plates, they will know you have a CHL. I haven't been pulled over in years, but there was a time after I first got mine that for some reason I got pulled over several times for relatively minor reasons (burned out headlight, broken tail light, failing to use my turn signal at 11:00 pm when there were no cars around (except the cop apparently), etc. etc. Stuff like that. Anyway, it was crazy for a year or 2. I thought the powers of the universe were after me for some reason. I guess I was what you would call a statistical anomaly for a while.

I will preface the following advice by saying that I do not routinely carry, only have the CHL "just in case" and so I can have loaded guns in the car when I travel for various reasons.

Anyway, the first time I got pulled over after having my brand new CHL I didn't know the cops had any expectation regarding being informed, and after the guy ran his computer check and came back to my car he gave me a real attitude. Chewed my butt. So when I got home, I called the sheriff's office and said, "What's up with that? Am I required to tell them by law I have a CHL?"

The answer was "No, but they appreciate being told."

A lot of people will say, never tell a cop at a traffic stop "I have a gun." That is probably good advice. But what I have done since my first unpleasant encounter is not say anything and hand them my DL and my CHL at the same time. They have always very courteously handed back my CHL and asked if I had a gun in the car. Since I usually don't, I have mostly said no. But when I have had one I tell them. Sometimes they have asked where it is, and I tell them, and they have gone about their business. I have never had a problem doing this, and have always been treated calmly and courteously.

So, that's my advice.

I had one ask to take the for the duration of the stop for her safety. They were in the glove compartment and not loaded. I should have resisted. I got the impression she ran the serial numbers on them. She was nice enough when she returned them, and she handed me a warning and left immediately. Weird. I have been asked since then if I was carrying, but nobody wanted to take them. I'm pretty sure next time someone wants to hold them for the duration, I'll tell them I'd prefer not. I think the less they are handled the less chance for an accident.

 

[Cavedweller]

I had one ask to take the for the duration of the stop for her safety.

That says it all.

 

[Flopsweat]

That says it all.

Now, I've heard guy cops say the same thing.

 

[biggie24420]

I work in a hospital. I have a thread on here, talking about how I had a degenerate street loser pull a realistic (pellet) gun on me. Technically he was on our property and we have stickers stating "weapon and violence free zone". These idiots have the audacity to stick their stickers all over the campus but won't do crap to actually protect their staff. I work as security and all we have is pepper spray. I'm trying to get things to change but all I see is them dragging their feet…. They being the employer. They want to use body cams to eventually justify the need for tasers lol…… losers in my opinion. I could have been killed that day and they don't give a single F about it.

I know and knew of other officers that carried concealed (had/have CHL). I have a lot of respect for them and I would never rat on them.

I will not confirm nor deny if I carry where I'm not supposed to but I will say this…… I am not gonna be a victim if I can help it. The criminal that pulled a gun on me, it happened very fast and he got me. Even if I was armed, he would have got a few shots in before I could react. Crap happens and I learned a few things.

Be aware of what's going on around you and do your best to keep distance and try to think logically. Don't let your anger or manhood cloud your thoughts and actions.

If I was off duty, I would have shot the degenerate scum…. 90% sure of that. I did give him a good beating though, he wasn't the tough guy he thought he was.

Oh…. I am Also a USCCA member and hopefully when I get back to work, if I end up having to defend myself, they will still provide their services. I was told by a USCCA staff that if I use deadly force while on the clock, I would not be protected…. BS IMO but I digress.

 

[40Garand]

In Oregon when a cop runs your car tags he gets info that you have a CHP if you do.

The ones that get me are the big mouths that pipe up on a simple traffic stop and think they're being courteous by advising the officer that they have a firearm in the vehicle even when it's not required to share such details. Then the officer says "Lets go ahead and get out of the car, clear your weapon and I'm going to run the serial #." That's where my attitude would shift a little south but I don't plan on ever putting myself in that scenario. If it's not required to inform in your state then DONT!