National Final Rule 2021R-05F Definition of "Frame and Receiver" and Identification of Firearms

[Yarome]

... it essentially stays the same as it ever was correct?

The only thing changing is making it illegal for companies to Mfg. and sell 80% kits correct?

Correct. Although, companies can still mfg and sell 80%'s, they just have to be licensed and serialized. It's certainly going to kill their 80% product line though. Why buy 80% when you can pick up an unfinished fully milled brand name lower for less coin? Not to mention that a lot of mfg aren't going to be able to afford the licensing or retooling. Effectively pricing them out of the market.

Sales/transfers... Before, it kind of depended on the FFL. And specifically formatted serialization wasn't absolutely required, but it will be now. But you're right. MOST FFL's won't touch an unserialized or required it to be serialized before they would mess with it.

 

[RobMa]

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/overview-final-rule-2021r-05f-definition-%E2%80%9Cframe-or-receiver%E2%80%9D-and-identification/download

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It is important to note that in classifying any frame or receiver, "the Director may consider any associated templates, jigs, molds, equipment, tools, instructions, guides, or marketing materials that are sold, distributed, or possessed with the item or kit, or otherwise made available by the seller or distributor of the item or kit to the purchaser or recipient of the item or kit." • This change makes clear that many of the products currently marketed and sold as unregulated "80% kits" contain a "frame or receiver" that is regulated by Federal law.

Great, an incredibly convoluted Venn diagram, that pretty much leaves a massive amount of room for "interpretation" when it comes to prosecuting individuals. Which I am pretty sure is how it was designed. Make everyone so afraid of going to jail that they will not even make the effort to own certain things in the first place and in the end "they" win and we lose. Same old story with our ever-increasing totalitarian govt.

 

[RVTECH]

Any future frame purchases would require an FFL and be serialized.

So will this in effect 'kill' the 80% market completely?

I mean I can see where there might be many who would still like to complete an 80% kit regardless of the serialization requirement - but it seems this MAY be the biggest issue with most and might still reduce or eliminate the market for the kits.

 

[arakboss]

Any future frame purchases would require an FFL and be serialized. Jigs and such they haven't gone after yet, but... they are leaving themselves the option to do so... is my understanding.

This page seems to only identify 80% or less frames/receivers sold as kits with tools as being required to have serial #.

 

[RobMa]

So will this in effect 'kill' the 80% market completely?

I mean I can see where there might be many who would still like to complete an 80% kit regardless of the serialization requirement - but it seems this MAY be the biggest issue with most and might still reduce or eliminate the market for the kits.

Exactly! this is the whole point of this new "ruling"

 

[Yarome]

So will this in effect 'kill' the 80% market completely?.

Consulting my magic 8 ball says, "You may rely on it".

 

[arakboss]

Any future frame purchases would require an FFL and be serialized. Jigs and such they haven't gone after yet, but... they are leaving themselves the option to do so... is my understanding.

It appears it would also require 80% kits with other parts necessary to complete firearm to be serialized.

 

[Yarome]

This page seems to only identify 80% or less frames/receivers sold as kits with tools as being required to have serial #.

Well, yeah. Example 1 is specifically targetted for handgun kits. The red frame is the "jig" and they typically ship with the drill bits required.

I haven't looked at everything available on the topic yet, but I have no doubt they will be going after 80% that don't include the "jig" and tools prepackaged together, too. Ie., AR 80% lowers. We all know AR's are more evil than plastic hand pew'ers, right?

 

[arakboss]

Well, yeah. Example 1 is specifically targetted for handgun kits. The red frame is the "jig" and they typically ship with the drill bits required.

I am thinking that they may be able to continue selling the 80% frame or receivers with out the jig and tools. They could sell the jig and tools separately.

 

[Yarome]

I am thinking that they may be able to continue selling the 80% frame or receivers with out the jig and tools. They could sell the jig and tools separately.

I dunno, but look at what they are "trying" to do to JSD. Attempting to shut them down because they sell individual items that "can" be used to complete an 80% lower. Stating that dropping certain item from their offerings would not satisfy the ATF cease and desist even though some of their 80's and jigs are sold as seperate items.

 

[Yarome]

The new rule seems to give them the latitude to definitively shut down the whole 80% market in any form... and I would imagine that is exactly their intent. Unless mfg's move to full serialization and meet FFL requirments on the frames themselves.

Purely my own interpretation and will likely take time to see the full extent of impact of the new rule.

 

[Richo877]

Ok, hear me out... since liquid polymers and blocks aren't considered frames or receivers, is the next logical step going to be selling liquid polymer and hardening mix kits with molding trays?

 

[arakboss]

I dunno, but look at what they are "trying" to do to JSD. Attempting to shut them down because they sell individual items that "can" be used to complete an 80% lower. Stating that dropping certain item from their offerings would not satisfy the ATF cease and desist even though some of their 80's and jigs are sold as seperate items.

I just read the part that addresses that issue. It looks like the jig/tools would have to be sold by an unrelated company. Poly80 is screwed.

 

[arakboss]

Ok, hear me out... since liquid polymers and blocks aren't considered frames or receivers, is the next logical step going to be selling liquid polymer and hardening mix kits with molding trays?

See you on Shark Tank.

 

[RobMa]

The new rule seems to give them the latitude to definitively shut down the whole 80% market in any form... and I would imagine that is exactly their intent. Unless mfg's move to full serialization and meet FFL requirments on the frames themselves.

Purely my own interpretation and will likely take time to see the full extent of impact of the new rule.

This is the intent, as are the majority of these laws and "rules" are.

Simply put, death by a thousand cuts...

 

[Yarome]

Ok, hear me out... since liquid polymers and blocks aren't considered frames or receivers, is the next logical step going to be selling liquid polymer and hardening mix kits with molding trays?

Ya never know! I agree with many around the internet that the home build genie is out of the bottle. Whatever form the next offer iteration will be, I dunno... but it certainly won't simply die off as Joe and the ATF might wish.

 

[Yarome]

I am thinking that they may be able to continue selling the 80% frame or receivers with out the jig and tools. They could sell the jig and tools separately.

I dunno. Some of their language can easily encompass just about anything. Even a frame with no jig or tools could easily fall into the whole, "anything that may be easily and readily be modified into a functional lower/receiver".. without specifying it has to include any jig or tools necessary to actually get from non to "functional".

I'm quite sure the examples will be expanded to meet the "intent" of the new rule. "Kill the non-serialized 80% market".

 

[Yarome]

...for that matter.. there is no clear definition of what "easily" or "readily" means, either.

I think it should be "easily or readily for Joe". That way... the whole rule is made moot and we're all still good to go.

 

[RVTECH]

Whatever form the next offer iteration will be, I dunno... but it certainly won't simply die off as Joe and the ATF might wish.

This might be the case but whatever he next 'iteration' is it will have to be something cost effective and relatively practical for the 'end user' to make/create. Otherwise something that is difficult or has a potentially low chance for successful completion might only appeal to 'die hards' if the ONLY reason for doing so is to sidestep the serial number requirement - which seems to be the major caveat in all of this - otherwise the 80% market might continue to flourish.

Heck I considered an 80% kit a couple years ago as a fun project - and I had the opportunity to buy the remaining parts from a G-17 from a guy who destroyed his frame, but that got bypassed for other things.

My point is while the 80% concept was a practical and easily 'doable' undertaking I wouldn't ever consider something like a liquid polymer & mold tray scenario.

 

[arakboss]

If I have to FFL it, give me the 110% one.