Filling someone else's tag

[Martini_Up]

I also feel for the folks who truely need the meat, but that is rarely the case for those who are party hunting and poaching in other ways. But there are programs and assistance out there; and in this day and age with tags, ammo, butcher supplies and even minimal fuel it doesn't pencil out in very many cases to be cheaper. If everybody who is having a tough time making it right now, went out and poached a deer or elk, there wouldn't be much left for next year. In the end they are still stealing. Being broke, still doesn't make it ok to steal in my book.

Yeah, those folks should just go on programs and assistance so they can steal from my pocket instead.

 

[theorren]

Sorry got sucked into going off topic. It's not worth the debate ... so gonna remove it before it becomes an issue.

 

[Quaka Wacka]

I think this may be a case of anger displacement here. It's not woodsman's fault that you can't pull you're bubblegum together and take down a buck before some other bloke manages to get not 1, not 2, but 3 elk. Now I did notice that you made it a point to mention that these stories were true, so i'm sure they were fabricated.

Also, what's with this new age poaching? We're gonna go and illegally shoot an animal but by God, let's make sure we buy the proper tags and make sure we do it in season. What happened to getting drunk, going out at night with a spotlight and laying waste to the wildlife? I guess i'm just old fashioned.

You absolutly right. Poaching does make me mad. For every animal that is taken illeagally, thats one less animal I have a chance at getting. The coffee can full of 'ivory' still gets heavier most years, but knuckleheads like this just make it that much harder.

And your really missing the point. I'll try typing slower. If you have to break the law to fill your tags, doesn't really mattter if your "old fashioned" or not you/re still a poacher. Guys see party hunting as ok, but the old fashioned stuff as poaching? You crack me up. I can tell your opinion comes from a very long hunting background. By the way the boy elk, with the antler-thingys on thier head are bulls, not bucks.

I'm not trying to jump all over woodsman, but he posed the question and I gave my opinion and interipitation of a very clear law. There are programs that would allow both of the things he mentioned, if the involved partys would just fill out the paperwork. A disability permit for a person not able to fill thier own tag, and the mentor program to teach young hunters how to safely and legally hunt.

Ma duce- As much as you and me would both like it, it's not the poineer days anymore. The abundance of game is no longer there. The state does not agree with your opinion that since you own the land you also own or have some special right to the wildlife. I would say what once was legal, in your hunting party isn't anymore. You can justify it however you want, but in the end, if you shoot an animal you don't personally have a tag for, you are poaching....for continuation of a family tradition? I bet when the elk numbers are down where you hunt, its all because of the wolves and cougars too.

NWCid- I understand what your getting at, but still don't think that resorting to poaching is accepatble in any part of the state. Rural or not. There are poor people everywhere, but there is also assistance for those people as well. When I was growing up I will agree that party hunting was more accepted, but now the human population is up and the animals are down. Somethings gotta give.

And for you gents that say they still don't see a problem with it... I don't know what to tell you.
Maybe next year ODFW and WDFW will come out with a special edition reg book with pictures to be more clear.

 

[Quaka Wacka]

Yeah, those folks should just go on programs and assistance so they can steal from my pocket instead.

I don't have much support for the government handouts either, but most folks in rural areas getting it, truely need it and aren't abusing it with near the frequency of the folks in the larger citeies....

 

[claypigeon]

The "legal" point is that if it is "your tag" then you must be the one pulling the trigger, not someone else filling your tag for you. Just because someone has a tag does not entitle them to an animal. The only thing a tag entitles people to is the opportunity to earn an animal. If they don't earn it then they don't deserve it. I believe we owe the animals that much at least.

I am going to have to give a +1 to this.

 

[MarkAd]

Interesting moral question here!

 

[i8asquirrel]

No matter how you want to justify it, if you shoot an animal you don't have a valid tag for, you are poaching. But say whatever you want to make it "OK". If you shoot three elk while hunting with intensions of tagging the first and having your family/friends tag the others, you just poached two elk. The only exception is when it is clearly legal, i.e. disabled hunters and mentor programs when allowed.

Happy Poaching party hunters....

I agree also

 

[C&H]

... and even casual target shooters going into the hills,....if you are in an area that has an open season on some game animal going on, and you have a firearm with you and are in the field, say, target shooting, you might really want to consider having a valid/current oregon hunting license on your person!

Hot damn, I didn't even think of that. I go shooting up in the Salmonberry Road area on occasion, and never thought of how it might look to someone. Of course, I'm pretty sure there's no tags I can buy for hunting cans and paper. Or for that bag of trash I harvested from the forest clearings where I shoot.

I'm thinking of heading up there on Sunday to let my 5-month old pup run a bit and then let him sit in the back of the truck while I fire a few mags of .22lr through my 10/22. I'm heading to REI later today to get him a blaze orange dog jacket.

I don't know if hunting is allowed there - anyone think I should wear an orange vest while teaching a soup can a few lessons? I don't want to be a target for some drunk bozo shooting at motion.

 

[Cougfan2]

Hot damn, I didn't even think of that. I go shooting up in the Salmonberry Road area on occasion, and never thought of how it might look to someone. Of course, I'm pretty sure there's no tags I can buy for hunting cans and paper. Or for that bag of trash I harvested from the forest clearings where I shoot.

I'm thinking of heading up there on Sunday to let my 5-month old pup run a bit and then let him sit in the back of the truck while I fire a few mags of .22lr through my 10/22. I'm heading to REI later today to get him a blaze orange dog jacket.

I don't know if hunting is allowed there - anyone think I should wear an orange vest while teaching a soup can a few lessons? I don't want to be a target for some drunk bozo shooting at motion.

If I am in the woods during hunting season I am wearing Blaze Orange whether I am hunting or not. There's just too many numbskulls out there that will shoot at anything that moves. That won't keep people from doing stupid things, but at least they have a better chance of seeing you before they let fly in your direction.

 

[C&H]

Noted, Cougfan2.
I'll be a veritable beacon of orange, and so shall my pup.

 

[nwwoodsman]

I have no problem with you helping out your elderly neighbor with a little animal control and I think you being able to have that bonding experience with your son-in-law is now something you two will always have. You can rest easy in my book woodsman, one tag one kill.

Only problem animals we have are stray cats, skunks, opposums, and coons. Would be quite a site to see an elk bee bopping down the sidewalk. As far as my son-in-law, I'm not that old and sure my little girl will be opposed to an arranged marriage when she's old enough in 14 years.
I'm not a poacher, haven't poached, and don't condone poaching. But I don't necessarily consider it wrong just because the rule books say so.

 

[keystir]

Only problem animals we have are stray cats, skunks, opposums, and coons. Would be quite a site to see an elk bee bopping down the sidewalk. As far as my son-in-law, I'm not that old and sure my little girl will be opposed to an arranged marriage when she's old enough in 14 years.
I'm not a poacher, haven't poached, and don't condone poaching. But I don't necessarily consider it wrong just because the rule books say so.

It was a failed attempt at humor. I was playing off the old story "I would never do this but I have a friend of a friend who...." Judging by the responses I got no one found it humorous but me. Sorry, but on the bright side I think I helped liven the debate a little.

 

[MA Duce]

In Reply to Wacka wacka: Ma duce- As much as you and me would both like it, it's not the poineer days anymore. The abundance of game is no longer there. The state does not agree with your opinion that since you own the land you also own or have some special right to the wildlife. I would say what once was legal, in your hunting party isn't anymore. You can justify it however you want, but in the end, if you shoot an animal you don't personally have a tag for, you are poaching....for continuation of a family tradition? I bet when the elk numbers are down where you hunt, its all because of the wolves and cougars too.

Thank you for your concern...but we have seen increasing elk herds in our area for years. In fact our stack yards where we store hay to feed the cattle over the winter are regularly broken into and stacks torn down. Fencing is only partially successful as, I am sure you are aware, elk are very powerful. Overhunting is the cause of decreasing herds, not carefully regulated harvesting. Did you assume we shoot as many as we like? Wrong. We take no animals we do not have tags for. As to having a special "right" to the wildlife, we do get landowner tags from the State... and are allowed to harvest cows as late as January, so I assume THEY think we do. I guess by your definition you may be right.....but with a huge tract of private land miles from anywhere I guess things won't change any time soon.

 

[ricsha]

Seems pretty clear to me. It's against the law, and it's morally wrong. Justify it all you want; it's still wrong. Just my opinion, but if you start to blur the line, where do you stop?

 

[Stick]

. Being broke, still doesn't make it ok to steal in my book.

According to the government it does....at least if you sneak across the border first

I'm fine with the dad handing the kid the gun to shoot the animal, I'd do it with my son. That would be one of the experienced you wouldn't forget

 

[Nwcid]

Seems pretty clear to me. It's against the law, and it's morally wrong. Justify it all you want; it's still wrong. Just my opinion, but if you start to blur the line, where do you stop?

Against the law, that is a fact that can easily be proved.

Morally wrong is an opinion which is the point of this whole thread. Just because you or someone else says something is morally wrong does not make it so. There are all kinds of people with all kinds of different morals. For Satanist they believe it is moral for them to worship Satan. Morals are simply based on ones beliefs.

I have seen many people do things I do not morally agree with, that does not mean they thought it was morally wrong. I am sure I have done things that I think are morally right but others think are morally wrong. This does not make one of use right or wrong............

 

[Quaka Wacka]

According to the government it does....at least if you sneak across the border first

I'm fine with the dad handing the kid the gun to shoot the animal, I'd do it with my son. That would be one of the experienced you wouldn't forget

Agreed, but one issue at a time.

I think that would make for a great hunt with your son, but why not do it through the mentor program and keep it legal? I don't think most games would hassle you for it, but why take that chance?

Ma Duce- Those LOP cow tags aren't because the state believes you have more of a right to the game, but to 'pay' the landowner for the damage the elk have caused. No damage= no tags. If they are issued the same as they are around here, they are issued under one name and are transferable to a
certain degree(mostly to family). So these really don't fall into the standard party hunting/poaching debate. If your filling your regular tags with a group effort as you described, your poaching. If the animals are so abundant, why do you have to break the law to fill your tags? Maybe if you hunted a little harder you wouldn't have to cheat. If you guys followed the rules, and only filled 8 of the 12 tags, are you saying that isn't enough meat to share between 12 guys?
When you buy and sign these general/draw tags, your agreeing to obey all
game laws.

On the is it immoral issue: Game laws are put into place to create a level playing field for all hunters as far as opportunity goes. So I'll ask this question
Is it immoral to illegally give yourself an advantage over other hunters? Guys see it as different than spotlighting or shooting game out of season, but the end result is the same. Less game to be legally hunted.

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Its pretty straightforward guys,, ITS THE LAW! If you don't like it,, change it. There have been a few good points made here regarding father/son issues, hardships and family, but when it comes right down to it,,if your engaging in these activities you know what your doing is wrong both legally and ethically. The law applies to all of us, you and I.

 

[iusmc2002]

Agreed, but one issue at a time.


On the is it immoral issue: Game laws are put into place to create a level playing field for all hunters as far as opportunity goes. So I'll ask this question
Is it immoral to illegally give yourself an advantage over other hunters? Guys see it as different than spotlighting or shooting game out of season, but the end result is the same. Less game to be legally hunted.

How is it less game to be legally hunted? If the 3 hunters in your previous scenario were standing together, holding hands or whatever; and they shot the 3 bulls, it would still be 3 down, 3 filled. Just like in your story

Maybe next year ODFW will come out with flashcards explaining addition, subtraction and ratios

As far as "earning" the animals, the hunters did the same exact thing you did. They got up early. They humped through the rain. Sat in the cold, waiting for dawn. Just happened to be on the otherside of the hillock from their friends. They did EVERYTHING you did to "earn" your animal except actually pull the trigger. I bet they even butchered them and humped the meat out of the woods. Just like you would have done. So where is the problem?

.

 

[claypigeon]

How is it less game to be legally hunted? If the 3 hunters in your previous scenario were standing together, holding hands or whatever; and they shot the 3 bulls, it would still be 3 down, 3 filled. Just like in your story

Maybe next year ODFW will come out with flashcards explaining addition, subtraction and ratios

As far as "earning" the animals, the hunters did the same exact thing you did. They got up early. They humped through the rain. Sat in the cold, waiting for dawn. Just happened to be on the otherside of the hillock from their friends. They did EVERYTHING you did to "earn" your animal except actually pull the trigger. I bet they even butchered them and humped the meat out of the woods. Just like you would have done. So where is the problem?

.

I believe in his scenerio the other two were not standing by the side of the one that shot the three elk. Therfore they probably would not have had the chance to take them themselves and there would still be two bulls running around.
I will have to agree with "earning" the elk also. Being able to place the kill shot yourself is part of the hunt. I can walk the fields and kick up birds all day, but if I can't palce a kill shot myself, I have not earned that bird. It comes down to your reason for being out there. Is it only to fill a tag or is it the full experience of the hunt. I personaly would be a little miffed if I heard some shots from my friend and found out he "filled my tag". But I don't hunt with people that do that sort of thing. It is one of those moral areas that is going to be controversial. We all come from different places with different values.