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Filling In Or Removing Gun Markings

Discussion in 'Maintenance & Gunsmithing' started by williamcjones1988, Feb 10, 2011.

  1. williamcjones1988

    williamcjones1988 Portland, OR Member

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    SO HERE IS THE DEAL IM CONSIDERING BULDING A 1911 FROM SCRATCH OR REFINISHING A SIG P6 NOW HERE IS THE CATCH ALL I WANT ON THE 1911 IS THE SERIAL#, ON THE SIG ALL I WANT IS THE SERIAL#, BRAND, AND MODEL, SO WHATS THE BEST WAY OF FILLING IN THE UNWANTED ENGRAVINGS
     
  2. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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    I believe what you are proposing is a Federal Felony that can earn you a $250,000 fine and up to 10 years in the pen
     
  3. williamcjones1988

    williamcjones1988 Portland, OR Member

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    how is it illegal as long as the reciever has its legal Serial Number thats all that should matter
     
  4. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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  5. Ryo

    Ryo WA Member

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    Think of this way. What good is the look up of an serial # if you don't know the make and model. Especially when manufacturers can select any serial # of their choosing.
     
  6. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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  7. Velzey

    Velzey Estacada, Oregon Gunsmith Gunsmith Bronze Vendor Bronze Supporter

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    Tig weld, some hand finishing, or a surface grinder! Leave the manufature serial number in tack and all if fine!
     
  8. williamcjones1988

    williamcjones1988 Portland, OR Member

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    well like i said the sig will have the brand and model the 1911 which will most like be from all sorts of diffrent parts all i want is the serial number no logos how is that crazy or ignorant
     
  9. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Again you can get rid of everything BUT it HAS to have maker name, State, Serial number and Model number, based on marking requirements listed above in my link.

    Now with that said I also found this, Section Which only says it is illegal to mess with the serial number.

    In your case I would suggest at the very least a call to your closest ATF office and mark the time, date, and person(s) you talk to. Even better would be to write them a letter with what you want to do and then you will get a letter back that you have written proof of what they say.
     
  10. williamcjones1988

    williamcjones1988 Portland, OR Member

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    That's a very good point well do
     
  11. just dan

    just dan PDX Active Member

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    I've talked to two ATF offices... got two different answers (though it was regarding import marks).

    I had stated that I owned a firearm that was being refinished (blued), and I had a concern over the import marks as they're generally laser etched on and quite shallow.

    One BATF said there was nothing clearly stating that import marks needed to be clear/legible/intact..,. Only that the serial number be completely unaltered and the manufacturer name be unaltered.

    The other stated that the import marks, along with any other marking from the factory or importer, could not be obscured in any way... further, that it was not legal to change the surface finish of a firearm. This is about where I gave up listening because it sounded pretty far fetched.

    i love getting different answers :)

    that being said, i polished the gun, smoothed the corners, blued it and have been happy. i don't fear criminal persecution because an import mark is no longer there. the manufacturer and serial are, and that (should) be good enough. i hope :)
     
  12. williamcjones1988

    williamcjones1988 Portland, OR Member

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    Thank you Dan yea if it was illegal to alter finishes then everybody who does duracoating is a criminal
     
  13. desert_fox

    desert_fox Lake Stevens New Member

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  14. billdeserthills

    billdeserthills Cave Creek, Arizony Well-Known Member

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    If you liked the different answers routine, then you're gonna Love the Please send me something in writing routine, that's when you know all the different aswer folks For Sure don't know the real answer...
     
  15. desert_fox

    desert_fox Lake Stevens New Member

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    here is the codes

    Section 5861(g) of the NFA, it is unlawful "to obliterate, remove, change, or alter the serial number or other identification of a firearm required by the chapter" as well as Section 5861(h) which makes it unlawful "to receive or possess a firearm having the serial number or other identification required by this chapter obliterated, removed, changed, or altered." Section 5842 of the NFA requires that, each firearm manufactured imported or made be identified by a serial number, the name of the manufacturer, importer or maker, and "other identification" as prescribed by the regulations. The additional marking requirements are prescribed by 22 CFR 479.102, and include the model of the firearm, caliber or gauge, name of the manufacturer or importer of record, and the city and state of the manufacturer who made the firearm or name of the country in which the firearm was manufactured. Pursuant to section 5861(g) of the NFA, it a criminal offense for an individual to obliterate any of the required markings found on an NFA firearm.