Filling In Or Removing Gun Markings

[williamcjones1988]

SO HERE IS THE DEAL IM CONSIDERING BULDING A 1911 FROM SCRATCH OR REFINISHING A SIG P6 NOW HERE IS THE CATCH ALL I WANT ON THE 1911 IS THE SERIAL#, ON THE SIG ALL I WANT IS THE SERIAL#, BRAND, AND MODEL, SO WHATS THE BEST WAY OF FILLING IN THE UNWANTED ENGRAVINGS

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[billdeserthills]

I believe what you are proposing is a Federal Felony that can earn you a $250,000 fine and up to 10 years in the pen

 

[williamcjones1988]

how is it illegal as long as the reciever has its legal Serial Number thats all that should matter

 

[Nwcid]

The above is correct. You will need to keep the serial number and the maker info on the gun to be legal. <broken link removed>

Any of the "warning" or other markings are not illegal to remove.

 

[Ryo]

Think of this way. What good is the look up of an serial # if you don't know the make and model. Especially when manufacturers can select any serial # of their choosing.

 

[billdeserthills]

I think you are crazy or ignorant, why don't you go to ATF Online - Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

and discuss it with the people who will be arresting you later on.

 

[Velzey]

Tig weld, some hand finishing, or a surface grinder! Leave the manufature serial number in tack and all if fine!

 

[williamcjones1988]

well like i said the sig will have the brand and model the 1911 which will most like be from all sorts of diffrent parts all i want is the serial number no logos how is that crazy or ignorant

 

[Nwcid]

well like i said the sig will have the brand and model the 1911 which will most like be from all sorts of diffrent parts all i want is the serial number no logos how is that crazy or ignorant

Again you can get rid of everything BUT it HAS to have maker name, State, Serial number and Model number, based on marking requirements listed above in my link.

Now with that said I also found this, Section Which only says it is illegal to mess with the serial number.

In your case I would suggest at the very least a call to your closest ATF office and mark the time, date, and person(s) you talk to. Even better would be to write them a letter with what you want to do and then you will get a letter back that you have written proof of what they say.

 

[williamcjones1988]

That's a very good point well do

 

[just dan]

I've talked to two ATF offices... got two different answers (though it was regarding import marks).

I had stated that I owned a firearm that was being refinished (blued), and I had a concern over the import marks as they're generally laser etched on and quite shallow.

One BATF said there was nothing clearly stating that import marks needed to be clear/legible/intact..,. Only that the serial number be completely unaltered and the manufacturer name be unaltered.

The other stated that the import marks, along with any other marking from the factory or importer, could not be obscured in any way... further, that it was not legal to change the surface finish of a firearm. This is about where I gave up listening because it sounded pretty far fetched.

i love getting different answers

that being said, i polished the gun, smoothed the corners, blued it and have been happy. i don't fear criminal persecution because an import mark is no longer there. the manufacturer and serial are, and that (should) be good enough. i hope

 

[williamcjones1988]

Thank you Dan yea if it was illegal to alter finishes then everybody who does duracoating is a criminal

 

[desert_fox]

here is what I found in my other forum.

Homebuilt AK (and other firearms) - Serial Numbers and other issues - Calguns.net

it is not illegal to build it without a serial number but if you have the intent to sell it, then it is.

 

[billdeserthills]

I've talked to two ATF offices... got two different answers (though it was regarding import marks).

I had stated that I owned a firearm that was being refinished (blued), and I had a concern over the import marks as they're generally laser etched on and quite shallow.

One BATF said there was nothing clearly stating that import marks needed to be clear/legible/intact..,. Only that the serial number be completely unaltered and the manufacturer name be unaltered.

The other stated that the import marks, along with any other marking from the factory or importer, could not be obscured in any way... further, that it was not legal to change the surface finish of a firearm. This is about where I gave up listening because it sounded pretty far fetched.

i love getting different answers

that being said, i polished the gun, smoothed the corners, blued it and have been happy. i don't fear criminal persecution because an import mark is no longer there. the manufacturer and serial are, and that (should) be good enough. i hope

If you liked the different answers routine, then you're gonna Love the Please send me something in writing routine, that's when you know all the different aswer folks For Sure don't know the real answer...

 

[desert_fox]

here is the codes

Section 5861(g) of the NFA, it is unlawful "to obliterate, remove, change, or alter the serial number or other identification of a firearm required by the chapter" as well as Section 5861(h) which makes it unlawful "to receive or possess a firearm having the serial number or other identification required by this chapter obliterated, removed, changed, or altered." Section 5842 of the NFA requires that, each firearm manufactured imported or made be identified by a serial number, the name of the manufacturer, importer or maker, and "other identification" as prescribed by the regulations. The additional marking requirements are prescribed by 22 CFR 479.102, and include the model of the firearm, caliber or gauge, name of the manufacturer or importer of record, and the city and state of the manufacturer who made the firearm or name of the country in which the firearm was manufactured. Pursuant to section 5861(g) of the NFA, it a criminal offense for an individual to obliterate any of the required markings found on an NFA firearm.