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Felons and Military Bases

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by unklekippy, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    This morning I saw a report stating that 52 felons had entered military bases this year. I find this laughable. As the(former) General Manager of an office furniture installation company that has installed millions and millions of dollars in furniture at Ft. Lewis(Stimulus money. I wish I had photos of the millions of dollars in brand new furniture the Army threw away, just to get "newer" Stimulus stuff.), I can say first hand that this is a lie. If the goal is to keep felons from the bases(and therefore guards guns), why did I personally send 15-20 felons to Ft. Lewis in 2011 and another 10-15 in 2012? Then, 2 convicted felons were caught with marijuana going into the base. They were already felons, then got busted with the pot. The only thing that happened is that they were no longer allowed at Ft. Lewis(but only for a little while. I believe they are both back on site right now as I type this.), so the company just started sending them to Fairchild in Spokane. Apparently the bases don't communicate at all, and don't check backgrounds unless 13 people die, then they claim to do more than they do, which is nothing at all.

    So, if the goal I to keep felons off the bases(and therefore away from guards and their guns, because apparently armed guards can't defend themselves.), how could any of what I described happen? These "guards" sit around telling dick jokes, all the while sure that nothing cold possibly happen in America, even more sure that everyone they see is a friendly face. If that were the case, WHY WERE YOU GIVEN AN M4 TO GUARD THE GATE? Complacency is the only answer.

    Here is what I see. First, allow anyone onto the base, because who has time, or wants to hassle all these people coming through the gate with drugs and guns? Then, when anything happens, pretend that you care about the safety of the people(the shooter can gut anyone on the base, but I guarantee he can't get within a 1/4 mile of the room where all the surveillance and illegal crap is done.) and tell lies about keeping felons out and how many felons entered anyway. If this one furniture company sends 15 felons a year to Ft. Lewis, how many are coming from other companies on other bases? A lot more than 52, I can promise that.

    Do I call FOX News and tell them what I know? Will they care? Will the security at the base be held accountable for letting barred people on the base?

    I am proud to be n American, but man, does our government make it hard sometimes.
     
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  2. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    Well, since they have civilians guarding the post now, and not GIs with loaded M16/M4s....
     
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  3. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Apparently your former company had hiring standards that allowed what seems to be a fairly high number of felons to work there. And if they have paid their debt to society, and are in compliance with all paper conditions, then there is really no reason to deny them access in the course of their legal employment.

    I owned a business that worked on school grounds a lot. We had a no felony hiring policy. Just the way it was. We drug tested and random drug tested all employees. At a huge base as JCB Lewis McChord, verifying the criminal status of every person entering the base is very problematic. I have spent a fair amount of time on Camp Pendleton, MCRD San Diego, and Camp Lejune.

    I had to present ID and insurance prooft every time, my vehicle was X rayed, a drug and explosives dog ran over it EVERY time. I am sure they had the ability to run LEDS and NCIC checks on me as well, and had that done several times when I was returning a car load of some what intoxicated Marines to the barracks.

    All that being said, I would think that as part of being a vendor to a military base, you would have to provide a list of employees and their criminal status, and other information. I know I had to on many DB jobs.
     
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  4. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree that when a debt to society is paid, it is in fact paid. What I am getting at is the claim that ONLY 52 felons came onto military bases is ridiculous. Yes, ID and registration/proof of insurance was always required at the gate. There WERE NOT sniffing dogs and the one time there was, the guys got caught with pot.

    As far as the sheer amount of felons in my industry, it is true. I have worked with convicted murderers in the past. Unfortunately for the worker, Portland is a competitive town and the furniture companies are always bidding against each other for jobs, limiting the pay scale. When you want people to work a different schedule every day based on the needs of the end user, go from 20 hours a week to 80 hours a week with no notice and pay them $10/hr. to start and your best guys are making $15-17/hr., you are going to attract a certain type of people. Ones that may not properly function in what most of us would call "the real world". In Chicago, the folks doing the jobs I described are union workers bringing a higher "class" of worker.

    Again, I have no concern with the folks that have paid their debt. Only the government lying about it when a disaster happens.
     
  5. Liberty97045

    Liberty97045 Oregon City Well-Known Member

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    tinfoilhat.gif
     
  6. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    You are correct that they are civilians, but they are definitely armed.
     
  7. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    Why the tinfoil hat? I'm not describing some sort of "conspiracy", only what I personally experienced. I'm sorry, I don't see the connection to pointing out blatant lies and a tinfoil hat.

    But hey, thanks for making a completely pointless post.
     
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  8. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    For the record, I haven't been to Ft. Lewis in a little over 10 years. I have sent many crews there to do work in the time since my last visit, but I did so from my desk in Portland. Everything I know about the crew vans that I sent through to do the contract work and the inspection they did or didn't receive has came from the initial requirements that we were given when we started the contract(ID, registration and proof of insurance) and feedback from the employees that actually went through the gate. The idea that contractor vehicles are regularly gone over by dogs is untrue. The one time that happened, the idiots involved went to jail. The guards did walk by with mirrors to look at the underside, but never once did I even hear about one of our trucks being x-rayed.

    I am not claiming that this is any kind of conspiracy. My only point is that when statements along the lines of "52 felons entered military bases" and that vehicles are thoroughly inspected, I know this to be untrue. I want our military and the contractors to be as safe as anyone else in their place of business and the complacency created by the same guards seeing the same faces and relaxing their security measures(whether they are following protocol or not) because they have seen the same guy enter so many times that he knows there is no way the guy has a bag of weed or a Remington 870, is dangerous and it is how these things happen. Of course running the gates of a base the size of JBLM is a logistic nightmare. I'm sure the gates at the DC Shipyard are o different. Maybe armed members of the military should be at the gates. Whoever is manning the security, they need to be a bit more vigilant, I'd say and lying to the public about the amount of felons entering military bases each year when a disaster finally happens changes nothing.
     
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  9. CoastRange57

    CoastRange57 Western Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Big difference between Army and Marine Corps installations apparently. Huge X ray boxes and nitrate sniffers at Camp Pendelton and Lejune. Armed Marines with M-4s, and those awesome 12 ga semi auto shot guns, and lots of dogs. Usually 4 to 6 Marines at each gate, 1 each side to take your info and 2 standing cover about 15 yards behind them lest you try and run the gate, your probably going to get whacked.

    Those were main gate setups, and when large numbers of people are coming on base, they set up other entry points and checks. There is only about 75,000 people on Pendleton, so you can imagine what the in and out traffic is like. Usually had to pop the hood and trunk also.
     
  10. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

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    Why shouldn't felons be allowed on military bases . . . Congress is full of potential felons!!

    Sheldon
     
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  11. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    All that and even remove the fuel cap.
     
  12. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Level of security depends on the installation, mission, materials on site, and other criteria. It's common to have different levels of security for different areas on an installation.

    Unless you have a need to now, or have access to safeguards information, it'll probably be totally transparent to most people on base.
     
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  13. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I even went through the full vehicle search with hood, fuel opening and all containers at the Portland Air base at times, with full armed security, then at other times, they just did a superficial
    look, but always had to be on the list and DL held before entry.
    Some other bases. had zilch, nada, no security, just what was my business and a pass.....
    That disturbed me a bit.
     
  14. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    It amazes me that a base the size of JBLM could have such relaxed security. I should also add that every felon I ever sent to the base showed his ID and was waved through. It isn't like they were "smuggled" on base.

    Removing the gas cap? Nothing even close to that ever happened, even when entering the base with 20' box trucks.

    Maybe when the .gov tells us that 52 felons gained access to army bases, they mean felons that are currently wanted. That would make me feel much better.
     
  15. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    Well, between this and JBLM, it seems there must be some sort of middle ground. It's amazing that one base covers every angle and the other just passes a van and truck full of who knows who through the gate.
     
  16. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    You're over thinking this. Different security measures for different parts of the base. General office areas would be the same security as every other office building. Same for general housing. Once you get to the more sensitive areas or actual operations areas, security would be increased. For example, munitions storage and preparations areas as well as combat vehicle areas would have different security than the commissary and car wash. As much as people scoff at the thought of "military intelligence", these people are smarter than you think.
     
  17. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, having the rental cops maybe cheaper but at what cost? Nothing says don"t eff with me like a Marine gate guards with an M16/M4! I always felt better entering and leaving Ft Lewis , McChord AFB and NAS Whidbey when they each had military members guarding the gates.
    Brutus out.
     
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  18. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    Of course there are different security levels. I am familiar with that. The guys I sent to these bases went into places that required an escort to the restroom and rooms that when entered all screens went blank and had flashing red lights to indicate that someone without clearance was in the room(that was at Fairchild, not JBLM.). I am still convinced that the claim of 52 felons entering bases is a bald faced lie, regardless of the security level of any given gate.
     
  19. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you 100% on that one. There is absolutely no way for them to know how many felons have entered bases.
     
  20. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

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    52 is probably how many ex wife felons they caught stalking their military hubbies. 1,000s of others were never detained or questioned.

    Brutus out