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Felons and Firearms

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Frog, Feb 9, 2009.

  1. Frog

    Frog Vancouver, Washington Member

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    I've never posted a 'poll' before, so bare with me if this doesn't work.

    This came up in a discussion with a NWF member.

    Should the laws be changed to allow Felons to own firearms legally?
     
  2. SgtKashim

    SgtKashim Wilsonville, Oregon Member

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    In my opinion, if you can't play by the rules, you shouldn't own guns. The whole attitude that leads to felony crimes seems to mesh very poorly with gun possession in my mind. I would support allowing a judge to make individual exceptions, though.
     
  3. jaredpost

    jaredpost Puyallup Member

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    I would think it should be on an individual basis. Not all felons are commited to a life of crimes. Some people make stupid choices when they are young but who doesn't?
     
  4. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    If the individual is 'fixed' enough to be a part of society without the government's eye, why are they not trustworthy with all their rights?

    What worries me about the no guns/voting for felons is this: An abusive government passes a law to turn a large portion of the population into felons. It could be anything, but it would usually be something that is innocuous but common to a specific part of the population, such as driving with a dog in your pickup bed (a stereotypical republican activity).

    They could then change the political climate in their favor, resulting in the opposing party having no recourse, since their firearms and voting rights have been revoked.
     
  5. Frog

    Frog Vancouver, Washington Member

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    I agree there should be, and I believe there are some, 'avenues' for felons to follow, who seriously want to change their life around and would one day allow them to drop the 'felon' label and all it's unpleasent circumstances.

    Further, I think that a felon, seriously wanting to turn his/her life around, would be placing gun ownership very close to the bottom of their list.

    That said, the question in the poll doesn't address this issue.

    Frog.
     
  6. dolooper

    dolooper Coast Range, or thereabouts Well-Known Member

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    If you paid your debt to society, you paid your debt to society.

    If you're a convicted felon and a judge has restored your rights such as the right to vote, gun ownership should be included in those rights.
     
  7. coctailer

    coctailer Portland, OR/Hastings, MI/Vancouver,WA I run with scissors.

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    There are several types of felonies.
    Let me ask this, to by crystal clear..............

    If a person goes into a home and executes the mother, father, and 2 children, with a Colt 1911, do you think he should be allowed to purchase a gun legally after he "pays his debt to society"?
     
  8. fingolfen

    fingolfen Oregon Member

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    Depends entirely on the felony...

    A violent felon should not... in the "old days", such individuals would have NEVER been released. Our revolving door prison lets these animals back out to prey again (which the most frequently do).

    Non-violent offenders - again, depends...
     
  9. Weebs

    Weebs Clackamas County Member

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    [wiki]Crimes commonly considered to be felonies include, but are not limited to: aggravated assault and/or battery, arson, burglary, illegal drug abuse/sales, embezzlement, grand theft, tax evasion, treason, espionage, racketeering, robbery, murder, rape, kidnapping and fraud.[/wiki]

    Looks like all of them are based around preying on others... My vote is they should never be allowed to own/possess/purchase/or use firearms.
     
  10. dolooper

    dolooper Coast Range, or thereabouts Well-Known Member

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    The short answer is, "yes."

    The long answer is is that different crimes entail different debts to society. After this guy does his time, his parole, and follows whatever policy that state has for the restoration of rights, then yes. If the crime is so heinous that permanent loss of rights is part of the debt, then that's part of the price.

    Loss of rights and whatever it takes to restore them is part of that "debt to society." For some people (as in this case), the debt is never fully repaid absent a pardon from a Governor for a state crime or a pardon from the President in a federal crime.
     
  11. Frog

    Frog Vancouver, Washington Member

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    "If you're a convicted felon and a judge has restored your rights ....."

    If you are no longer a felon, then you are not a felon.

    The poll is about people who are felons.

    Frog.
     
  12. Keane

    Keane Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    What definition are you guys looking at? Every definition of 'felon' I've seen is irrevocable, meaning once a felon, it is impossible to stop being one:

    Felon: A person convicted of a felony
     
  13. nathanh

    nathanh Vancouver, WA Member

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    Convicted felons CAN own guns. A superior court can restore a persons privilege to own firearms, depending on the original crime and other circumstances.

    So the person is still legally a convicted felon and can legally possess firearms (but not vote). Aren't laws wonderful.
     
  14. dolooper

    dolooper Coast Range, or thereabouts Well-Known Member

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    I don't mean to be dense here and maybe I'm reading too much into the discussion, but what do we mean by the word, "felon"? I took it to mean somebody who has been convicted of a felony.
     
  15. Frog

    Frog Vancouver, Washington Member

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    I agree with keane; the 'cut and dry' definition.

    But let me try to put it this way:

    Felon: Referring to the 'Felon' that the law now says can not legally own a firearm.

    I'm going to need waders here pretty soon! :D

    Frog.
     
  16. pr787lv

    pr787lv somewhere in the NW Member

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    Before I started reading the posts, two questions came to mind:
    1. define felon (good we are clearing that one up)
    2. what's the point with this discussion? Tryin' to garner some grassroots backing to have the current state of the law changed?

    And yes, as per my recollection, a convicted felon can own a law as NathanH indicated. A court (can't recall what kind) has to restore the right.

    My friend, you can do pretty much anything if you have the money and the endurance.
     
  17. Karma

    Karma the woods in Oregon Active Member

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    To me, it would completely depend on the offense. There are many non-violent felonies. For example, someone convicted of insider trading isn't someone who probably is going to use a gun in a criminal way. I know a guy who bought two quads out of the classifieds in a local paper, and they turned out to be stolen. He had a bill of sale and everything but ended up getting pinched for recieving stolen goods! Should he not have a gun? How about a 20 year old kid who has a 17 year old girlfriend and get's nailed for "rape". Is that a offense that makes him more likely to shoot someone? Even a young person who takes a car for a joyride? Should he not be able to own a gun for the rest of his life? It is true that he did something stupid, but who hasn't done something stupid in their youth? Did you know that if you were a roomate with someone who has a felony, and you have a gun in the house, you can get a class b felony for providing firearms to a felon? Even if it is your gun and is locked up in a safe. Who of us hasn't been in a fist fight? Heck, even self defense can turn into a felony these days! Have you ever heard of someone getting manslaughter charges for simply protecting his family? I don't know too many people who haven't done anything wrong in life.

    I think it is total b.s. Of course someone who has been convicted of a violent felony like murder or rape shouldn't be let loose in society with a gun to prey on people. However, people make mistakes at times. ****, sometimes people get caught in a bad situation! Don't forget that creative tax preparation could get you fraud and quite a laundry list of felonies! How many people do you know in your everyday life that could effect?

    My guess is that most of us have done things in our lives that we could have got in big trouble for. Most of us outgrow it and move on with life. Some people don't get quite as lucky. How many of us have drank a couple of beers and got behind the wheel? If you got in a wreck that was your fault or not that caused a death, you are a felon!

    The bottom line in my book is that people can become felons through many different avenues. If there is something that they did that relates to violence or possibly to drug offenses, then they should not own a gun until further notice. If their offense has nothing to do with guns, violence, or controlled substances, then I think they should have the right to protect themselves and their families the same as the rest of us.
     
  18. CaseyPod

    CaseyPod North Vancouver Member

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    Removing violent crimes and you have......
    illegal drug abuse, embezzlement, tax evasion, racketeering, and fraud.

    My grandfather had a small investment company that had one member steal from the company. My grandfather was the controlling partner - when he could not pay the clients because of the theft he was charged with Fraud, embezzlement, and racketeering.... My grandfather was found to be not guilty but it was close.

    Should he have been found guilty of even one count, truly guilty or NOT- he would have had his right to vote and right to own a gun taken from him. That doesn't sound right to me.

    A lot of people make mistakes and there should be exceptions to the rule. Non-violent crimes in particular. How many dumb teenagers get caught with drugs? What if you were charged for murder in your own self-defense? What about Compean and Ramos shooting a drug dealer in the rear and getting railroaded for it?

    See my point? There is a fine line between right and wrong sometimes...

    :angeldevil:
     
  19. usmc0311

    usmc0311 Portland Member

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    I agree with a lot of what has been said here. As far as gun ownership goes, I think that (at the risk of enlarging this already behemoth of a gov't) there should be some sort of recourse for felons to regain their right to own a gun, and it should in no way be based solely on whether it was a violent felony or not.

    As far as a minor thread hijack, voting should never be taken from anyone, unless they are not mentally fit. That is the only reason someone should not be able to vote if they wish. Otherwise it's not a democracy.
     
  20. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I agree with some of the others. If you can't play well with others, then you shouldn't be able to have a gun. Period. If only laws would be more strict with criminals having guns instead of restricting laws for us law abiding citizens.
    I also wish that we could restrict not only prohibit felons having guns, but stupid people from having kids, but that's a whole other post.