Feds raiding militia groups

[Boats]

AS PREDICTED, FBI AGENT DISCOVERED AT CENTER OF ALLEGED HUTAREE CONSPIRACY
http://www.prisonplanet.com/as-pred...-at-center-of-alleged-hutaree-conspiracy.html

The whole thing is obviously another Fear Factor episode produced by the FBI. Look at the pictures of these people, obviously not the sharpest tools in the shop. The FBI "informant" read "provocateur" has twenty I.Q. points on any one else in the group.
In a number of similar cases against domestic Muslim "terrorists" the FBI has even supplied the explosives as well as the plan.

Jeez. How long will it be before Americans learn to run a proper guerilla cell?

If you're gonna begin whacking authority figures, plotting in a large group and blabbing about things along those lines on the internet ain't the way to go about it.

Successful resistance/terror/revolutionary groups nab soft targets from their driveways, homes, etc. and off them in gruesome fashion in the woods/basements/abandoned warehouses etc., only claiming credit afterwards, not making idle threats and boasts beforehand.

It's really only a matter of time before someone who really knows what they're doing tries something. There are more folks out there with the right training for serious mischief than there has been in a long, long, time.

 

[Stomper]

yes... scarry, huh?

 

[Blitzkrieg]

They had an undercover agent with this group that planned to kill cops, then kill more at the funeral.
If you want to fight tyranny, your fighting the wrong people. These guys are nothing but dirt dumb, trigger hungry, back woods fools.
And to call themselves Christians makes me sick.

I hope they spend the rest of their lives in jail, and then burn in ****.

These are the people that give gun owners a bad name, the people that shouldn't be called Americans. These people are no better than the people trying to take our rights.

So you just believe everything the "media" tells you? Wow.. George Orwell, where are you?

 

[pokerace]

Christian militia,Muslim terrorists these are the terms used by the meda and the feds.
soon they will be dropping the words militia and muslim. Then every one of us will be a christian terrorist.

 

[tionico]

HERE IS YOUR WAKE UP CALL OR YOU CAN KEEP PLAYIN ARM CHAIR QUARTER BACK .IT GOING TO BE WACO AND RUBY RIDGE ALL OVER AGAIN IN MULTIPLE
STATES THEN DOOR TO DOOR.

<broken link removed>

link goes to their page, but the page is now blank..... hmmm.. suspicion level rises significantly.......

 

[tionico]

If these guys were really out to kill a cop or three, then more at the funeral, they'd have at least fired a few shots during the raids..... cops come onto the property unannounced, uninvited, "hey, intruders, they're fair game. Fire when ready".

Nah, my "take" after reading all this is that there are a bunch of slightly off dudes playing soldier in the woods, the FBI stoolie gets assigned them to see what trouble he could stir up, lays HIS plot on them and sets them up.......

besides, how will the FBI ever be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (the required level of proof in such a case) that the members of this fun and games club didn't get on to the stoolie and play HIM along? It would make a decent defense..... hey, I figured out the guy was a plant, and led him on to find out how wacked he is.... and see what his masster plan was. We never had any intention of DOING any such thing.... it was all his imagination and delusion.

It IS rather interesting how things moved from "threats against moslems" to "trading in pipe bombs" to "plotting to kill a cop then terrorise his funeral". I didn't read the entire indictment, but we hear no more mention of the bombs/moslem issues now we've got the plot defined.... and then we learn the FBI had their own man running the show......

Defining the chronology of the development of this "plot" will be key to a good defense... if the FBI can prove word and plan were in place before their man arrived on the scene, they'll have their day won. If, on the other hand, the militia can prove the cop-killing plan was not on the table before Stoolie got on the scene, they'll have a much tougher row to hoe......

On the one hand, we've seen how nutjob private militia groups CAN be off the deep end. On the other, we've seen how our gobbermint stooges can pull treason and terrorism out of thin air.....
I suppose this trial will be loads of fun.... sort of like Mr, Toad's Wild Ride for the lawyers.

 

[ZachS]

besides, how will the FBI ever be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (the required level of proof in such a case) that the members of this fun and games club didn't get on to the stoolie and play HIM along? It would make a decent defense..... hey, I figured out the guy was a plant, and led him on to find out how wacked he is.... and see what his masster plan was. We never had any intention of DOING any such thing.... it was all his imagination and delusion.

That would be a terrible defense. The prosecutors in this case presumably have a very long list of incriminating statements, likely recorded. If they were to ask a defendant "So, were you kidding when you said [X] on [Y] day?" a dozen or two times, it would leave a strong impression on a jury - not in the defendant's favor.

Undercover FBI agents and US attorneys are generally very good at what they do. They know just how far they can push the law, and they like to chase cases that will be easy wins.

 

[tionico]

Well,Zach, I guess you didn't catch the list of several current trials where the FBI apparently did precisely what I suspect them of in this instance..... groups with no plans to do this or that, penetrated by FBI stoolies who then foment, plan, and supply, the acts for which the defendants are now accused of plotting...... several high profile "jobs in progress" over the past few years.....

Seems FBI should be changed to mean Federal Bureau of Infiltration.......
or maybe Federal Bureau of Instigation.

Our tax dollars at work. Working to give the gobbermunt "valid reason" to enact even more restrictive laws, "neutralise" even more citizens....

In one such case, FBI agents infiltrated a small group, instigated plans to attack a military base, sold them fake bombs to do so, convinced the members it was "the right thing to do".. then busted the lot of them before "it was too late".... so we got to read in the fishwrap that the Feds managed to thward a terror cell just as they were about to spring their plot of mayhhem and destruction...... becoming instant heroes and proving their infinite worth to all who read the thing before lining the birdcage with it. Also, further proof the Patriot Act is "working"........ and necessary.

 

[The B]

since theres really not all that much to do, since the vast majority of americans aren't plotting against the government and illegally converted weapons are rare, and since they have a huge budget that needs to be spent to be justified, and since they almost NEVER face any negative consequences for totally false allegations and arrests.... why's it so hard to believe they might "fish?"

 

[tionico]

since theres really not all that much to do, since the vast majority of americans aren't plotting against the government and illegally converted weapons are rare, and since they have a huge budget that needs to be spent to be justified, and since they almost NEVER face any negative consequences for totally false allegations and arrests.... why's it so hard to believe they don't "fish?"

there's fishing, then there is building a hatchery and raising fish.

But your point is well taken........

I've maintained for a long time, disband the CIA, leave the foreign "special ops" to the military, and let the FBI deal with "intel" on the home front. And cut the FBI's budget, after this re-wrap of CIA, to about, oh, a good place to start would be about a quarter of the present budget...... We've got the Secret Service as body guards for the royalty, DHS for keeping us masses "in line"... hey, maybe disband the FBI and roll them into DHS... whilst cutting THEIR budget into about a fifth of the present.

 

[Wheeler44]

In one such case, FBI agents infiltrated a small group, instigated plans to attack a military base, sold them fake bombs to do so, convincedBY offering to pay the members it was "the right thing to do".. then busted the lot of them before "it was too late".

Uncle Nicky...Ya missed a step...I got yer back

 

[ZachS]

Well,Zach, I guess you didn't catch the list of several current trials where the FBI apparently did precisely what I suspect them of in this instance..... groups with no plans to do this or that, penetrated by FBI stoolies who then foment, plan, and supply, the acts for which the defendants are now accused of plotting...... several high profile "jobs in progress" over the past few years.....

Oh, I know they violate peoples' rights in all sorts of egregious ways - just sayin' that they can usually make a few charges stick while doing so.


I agree w/ your ideas about "reforming" federal law enforcement/"intelligence"... There's a need for it, but it's so powerful and operates with so little oversight that our civil liberties are endangered in far too many ways.

 

[tionico]

Uncle Nicky...Ya missed a step...I got yer back

OOOOhhhh.. how COULD I forget such a fine use of our tax dollars? Somehow I missed that bit in the report I read.

thanks for the correction. And the cover. (n.b. NOT coverUP)

 

[Wheeler44]

OOOOhhhh.. how COULD I forget such a fine MISuse of our tax dollars? Somehow I missed that bit in the report I read.

I hope followin' you around doesn't become a full time job (insert smiley face with tongue in cheek here)...

W44

 

[tionico]

I hope followin' you around doesn't become a full time job (insert smiley face with tongue in cheek here)...

W44

Nah.. won't take long. Ah kin owtrun yew enny day a th' week..... mah hinder pawrts won't eben be on th' her EYE zin fer long...... then ye kin git back ta whutebber ye wuz a dewin befawr

but Ah'm a thankin ye fer the he'p.......

 

[Decker]

Here's another story that's going to be interesting to follow...

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/02/governors.extremists/index.html?hpt=T2

-d

 

[matt_w]

FTA:

The office had been warned in advance to be on the lookout for the letter, she said.

Gibbons' office stepped up security at the Nevada Capitol in Carson City after receiving the letters.

Everyone had to enter through one entrance, and an X-ray machine and metal detector were brought in.

Boulders were placed in front of the Capitol so vehicles could not drive close to the building.

I read through the particular site that called for the letters awhile ago...didn't really see anything violent about it. Funny how some people are taking it so seriously.

 

[8ball]

I do agree that some of the recent "terrorist cell" cases seem like entrapment of very stupid, misguided people by a clever govt informant. The Hutaree case is a bit different since they clearly put all this stuff out on the Internet, and even their own family members have come out and said they were a little nutty.

On the other hand, if you are stupid enough to be entrapped in this type of govt action and you happily go along with plans for violent jihad/revolution, it is just natural selection in action as it cleans up the gene pool a little.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

If these guys were really out to kill a cop or three, then more at the funeral, they'd have at least fired a few shots during the raids..... cops come onto the property unannounced, uninvited, "hey, intruders, they're fair game. Fire when ready".

Nah, my "take" after reading all this is that there are a bunch of slightly off dudes playing soldier in the woods, the FBI stoolie gets assigned them to see what trouble he could stir up, lays HIS plot on them and sets them up.......

besides, how will the FBI ever be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (the required level of proof in such a case) that the members of this fun and games club didn't get on to the stoolie and play HIM along? It would make a decent defense..... hey, I figured out the guy was a plant, and led him on to find out how wacked he is.... and see what his masster plan was. We never had any intention of DOING any such thing.... it was all his imagination and delusion.

It IS rather interesting how things moved from "threats against moslems" to "trading in pipe bombs" to "plotting to kill a cop then terrorise his funeral". I didn't read the entire indictment, but we hear no more mention of the bombs/moslem issues now we've got the plot defined.... and then we learn the FBI had their own man running the show......

Defining the chronology of the development of this "plot" will be key to a good defense... if the FBI can prove word and plan were in place before their man arrived on the scene, they'll have their day won. If, on the other hand, the militia can prove the cop-killing plan was not on the table before Stoolie got on the scene, they'll have a much tougher row to hoe......

On the one hand, we've seen how nutjob private militia groups CAN be off the deep end. On the other, we've seen how our gobbermint stooges can pull treason and terrorism out of thin air.....
I suppose this trial will be loads of fun.... sort of like Mr, Toad's Wild Ride for the lawyers.

ATF is famous for creating crimes where none existed.. and using them for a big dog and pony show to boost their "fed creds"..as at Ruby Ridge and Waco, TX

 

[zeezee]

ATF is famous for creating crimes where none existed.. and using them for a big dog and pony show to boost their "fed creds"..as at Ruby Ridge and Waco, TX

I couldn't agree more. Trust the fbi? LOL! Nope, mama didn't raise no fool.