National Federals vs States vs Counties

Discussion in 'Firearm Legislation & Activism' started by CamoDeafie, Nov 18, 2018.

  1. CamoDeafie

    CamoDeafie
    Albany
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    Many here have praised the passing of pro 2A county ordinances in Oregon, but some have raised valid points related to Oregon's State Preemption Law, and there is the issue of the Federal Supremacy Clause.
    It is fact;
    1) State Preemption Law in Oregon states that authority to regulate firearms or create rules related to firearms rests solely in Oregon's Legislative Assembly.

    2) the Federal Court of Appeals in recent years, have ruled that States indeed can have more restrictive rules on firearms (see Maryland, California, New York, etc) than what is outlined in the Federal Constitution, per 10th Amendment, and they have ruled the regulations "constitutional":rolleyes:

    On the other hand;
    3) the Federal Court of Appeals did in fact rule that States cannot "subvert" the Federal authority in terms of firearms manufacturing and sales within the State, even if firearms were to stay within State; see Firearms Freedom Act 2009, Montana. :confused:

    4) the same Federal Court of Appeals have in the past, ruled that the 2nd amendment only protect military arms in common use (Miller decision),

    5) but it has recently been ruled under USSC that the 2nd Amendment protects an individual right to arms (see Heller).

    Given the seemingly contradictory rulings, and given that recently the USSC have chosen not to hear 2nd A cases between NRA/2AF/GOA and States; I wonder what does this really signify for the future of gun rights?

    The USSC could rule either that the Federal maintains sole authority in regulating firearms sales, transfers, and manufacturing, and States cannot interfere with Federal authority in any way related to firearms regulations (a somewhat preferable notion, because it could nullify and void the various anti 2A State laws around the Nation)
    Or that the States also have authority to regulate firearms; and therefore the Federal does not have sole authority, but that the States have every right to regulate how they see fit (may require an USSC decision regarding Firearms Freedom Acts in states like Montana, thereby nullifying the Federal Appeals court decision related to that)

    What does the County SAPOs have to do with the above? Quite a bit.
    They declare that the County recognizes Federal authority held in the Constitutionas the supreme law of land, and that States should not subvert the Federal Laws by passing more restrictive rules and regulations than that of the Federal Authority; and declare that the County Law Enforcement Agencies will not enforce the particular State laws within the Counties; but defers that enforcement to State Police who supposedly will have to enforce the State regulations..

    (But heres a problem...)
    The thing of it is basically jurisdiction issue. Do the State Police have the actual authority to enforce all of the State laws in Counties and cities?
    Can the State Police be expected to provide resources and manpower to force Counties to enforce State laws?

    It may seem simple enough that State Police is "higher" in authority than County Police/Sheriffs, BUT... let us look at their respective jurisdictions.
    Oregon State Police; primary jurisdiction on all State Highways and State owned Property. May be called to assist local and county LE

    Oregon County Sheriff Departments; full jurisdiction of counties, including municipalities and cities.

    City Polices; primary jurisdiction within city limits, assists County Sheriffs in regards to local crimes.

    So. It is clear that the County Sheriff Departments have more authority to enforce laws in the Counties, however one could argue that firearm regulations are to be enforced only by the OSP; but theres another problem. For Concealed Handgun licenses, on the forms it says Chief LE agency to sign off on it.. that more often than not, falls to the County Sheriff.

    As for OSP manpower and resources, there are only 406 or so Troopers (most of who are driving around the Highways), and 514 Civilians employed by the State Police. These people cannot be expected to enforce State gun laws in all 36 Counties :rolleyes:
     
  2. NW Backpacker

    NW Backpacker
    In the hills
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    Good post.
    I heard the USSC did not hear some of the 2A cases because they did not have a sufficiently conservative majority to ensure a good outcome, so they were waiting for Trump appointees. Maybe they have enough now? One more would be better, but can't wait until after 2020; all the older lib justices will quit on day 1 of the next D president, if there is a D senate. All the old conservative justices should quit NOW, and let Trump and the new senate replace them with young conservatives. But our side may not be as savvy as the Ds.
     
  3. Heyjoe

    Heyjoe
    Idaho
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    Sheriff's, judges, politicians and those in the armed forces have all taken an oath to defend the constitution of the United states from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic.

    Attempts to subvert the constitution or to otherwise enforce said rulings is nothing short of treason in the highest degree and shall be met with death.

    Nary a few of these oath takers will yet be living on the morrow.

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to display it, he is obligated to do so."
    T. Jefferson
     
  4. E4mafia

    E4mafia
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    Heres the way I see it,

    If they say we worry too much about illegal aliens being unaccounted for and proposed numbers being in the 30+ millions nation wide. Then how exactly do they wish to radar 300+ million guns in the entire US. Reminder they think we are crazy trying to regulate immigration numbers flip side they want that but with guns. One is protected by the bill of rights, one is confused on the original interpretation in an amendment.

    30+ illegals nation (rough numbers i've heard)
    300++ guns in ownership or production sold within the US (again rough numbers)


    Hmmm?

    Case in point these gun laws and who gets to determine them are only bandaides to the larger structure problem with call a democracy and the people who 9 to 5 it 365.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2018
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  5. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
    Warshington
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    This turns into gamesmanship between jurisdictions. You’ll find jails who will stop booking people arrested by the state or they won’t confirm warrants, etc. PAs who wont charge people for certain crimes, all sorts of shenanigans.
     
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