Federal Brass - Why do some people like it?

[jluck]

The Nosler Brass is made by Winchester.... Sorry to burst your bubble...

So does Norma, weatherby, federal, Lapua,Budweiser and Chevrolet depending on what "Nosler employees" have contributed to the Internet.

 

[P7M13]

95 grains! Talk about your shoulder getting hammered!

Nope. 20#+ and a muzzle brake -- kicks less than my 308. Now, my 416 Rigby? Well, that's a whole 'nuther story....

 

[orygun]

I decided to stick with R-P brass for my 06 since I started with Remington ammo before I started loading the 06. The only time I've had a problem is when I didn't lube it properly and stuck a case in the sizing die.
I've not annealed any cases. I usually "neck size" them with a full length sizer after being shot in my gun. I only full length size when they have come to me second hand.
Some of my cases have 6 or 7 reloads on them and I've not had a split neck of separated case and I load them near max. (58.5 to 60gr of RL22 depending on the bullet.)
Remington brass works for me!

 

[BrentN]

Fun Reading. I'm not there yet, but have done lots of reading. Chevalier's 8th edition, twice, plus lots of forum lurking.
Question- the neck split, is this due to thinning of material after it stretches and gets trimmed? Sorry, admitted noob here.
I can be very patient/anal about things, reloading looks like the perfect retirement activity for me, but that's about a decade from now. Assuming it isn't outlawed by then.

 

[orygun]

The Nosler Brass is made by Winchester.... Sorry to burst your bubble...

Greenbug, Can you cite your source of this info? From what I found poking around is that Norma is commonly considered the manufacturer, with Federal and possibly Remington making it.
You know how it is, so many "theories".

 

[orygun]

I was just out in the garage putting together some loads for testing.
Like usual, using Remington brass for the finished rounds. I was using a "dummy" case, which was a Federal, for working the powder measure and noticed that the powder level was up in the neck compared to when it was poured into the Remington case where it was only up to the shoulder. (I was weighing every charge on the scale before putting it in the case to be loaded)
Later I put the Federal case on the scale, followed by Remington then Winchester. The Federal case was almost 10 grains heavier than the Remington, with the Winchester being lighter yet.
I'm thinking that many like Federal cases because the believe they are stronger in the web and case head as shown by the weight difference.
Not at all going to change my preference, but an observation relating to the OP.

 

[jluck]

I was just out in the garage putting together some loads for testing.
Like usual, using Remington brass for the finished rounds. I was using a "dummy" case, which was a Federal, for working the powder measure and noticed that the powder level was up in the neck compared to when it was poured into the Remington case where it was only up to the shoulder. (I was weighing every charge on the scale before putting it in the case to be loaded)
Later I put the Federal case on the scale, followed by Remington then Winchester. The Federal case was almost 10 grains heavier than the Remington, with the Winchester being lighter yet.
I'm thinking that many like Federal cases because the believe they are stronger in the web and case head as shown by the weight difference.
Not at all going to change my preference, but an observation relating to the OP.

This could also contribute to people loading all makes of brass with the same charge and ending up with higher pressures in the smaller capacity Federal cases causing more stress on the brass alas making more failures...

 

[orygun]

This could also contribute to people loading all makes of brass with the same charge and ending up with higher pressures in the smaller capacity Federal cases causing more stress on the brass alas making more failures...

I believe it can. For years I've loaded 41 Mag handgun. Never had an issue until I bought a batch of Starline cases. The velocity recorded by the chrono was a bunch higher than with the Remington cases I'd been using and the load was near max. Went back, weighed the Starline cases, and found they were quite a bit heavier than the Remington. Backed off a grain and all was well.
One example of why it's said to back off from known loads when changing components.

 

[Greenbug]

Greenbug, Can you cite your source of this info? From what I found poking around is that Norma is commonly considered the manufacturer, with Federal and possibly Remington making it.
You know how it is, so many "theories".

I live about a mile away from Nosler. I have several friends that have worked there and some that still work there... Not going to out them by telling their names here.

Think about it... Nosler has long been teamed up with Olin/Winchester, Example: Combined Technology bullets. It really does not make sense for any other company to be making brass for Nosler than Winchester.

Nosler gets the brass raw then sizes, trims, de-burrs, weight sorts and packages the brass. That is why it costs so dang much as compared to other brass. Norma brass costs so much due to the import taxes etc...

FWIW

 

[orygun]

I live about a mile away from Nosler. I have several friends that have worked there and some that still work there...

Thanks! When I saw your location I wondered if YOU worked there.

Thanks for the "inside scoop".

 

[Morpheus]

The Nosler Brass is made by Winchester.... Sorry to burst your bubble...

So then is Winchester in Bend, Oregon? Or is Nosler a wholly owned subsidiary of Winchester? Or is Nosler brass re-branded Winchester brass? I ask because Nosler is out of Bend, Oregon and didn't know they were part of Winchester.

http://www.nosler.com/contact-us

 

[jluck]

Nosler has long been teamed up with Olin/Winchester, Example: Combined Technology bullets. It really does not make sense for any other company to be making brass for Nosler than Winchester.

Nosler gets the brass raw then sizes, trims, de-burrs, weight sorts and packages the brass. That is why it costs so dang much as compared to other brass. Norma brass costs so much due to the import taxes etc...

FWIW

Even if Winchester makes brass for Nosler, It does not mean it is the same exact brass as Winchesters house brass. It is as simple as a slightly different base material, formula,specs,extra steps, higher QC or different production process to Noslers Specifications. The whole "insider info" (from a common laborer means bubblegum).

I'm not implying I'm right but I can assume with the rest...

 

[Stomper]

Ahem.... The proper term for that is pronounced "a$$-u-me".

 

[Greenbug]

Notice I didn't say that Nosler brass is the same as Winchester brass, only that Winchester made the Nosler brass.....

It is unfortunate when people misunderstand what they have read.

Even if Winchester makes brass for Nosler, It does not mean it is the same exact brass as Winchesters house brass. It is as simple as a slightly different base material, formula,specs,extra steps, higher QC or different production process to Noslers Specifications. The whole "insider info" (from a common laborer means bubblegum).

I'm not implying I'm right but I can assume with the rest...

There are extra steps which I outlined in post #31. The metallurgy could be different you are right about that, however, I am certain of my "insider info" as you describe it.

 

[jluck]

Notice I didn't say that Nosler brass is the same as Winchester brass, only that Winchester made the Nosler brass.....

It is unfortunate when people misunderstand what they have read.



There are extra steps which I outlined in post #31. The metallurgy could be different you are right about that, however, I am certain of my "insider info" as you describe it.

I was "speaking" generally not personally. I done did komprehended and understoodeeded just fine.

 

[AMProducts]

The Nosler Brass is made by Winchester.... Sorry to burst your bubble...

You sure about this? Nosler has been doing their own brass for at least 3-5 years as far as I know, their quality is probably 3 orders of magnitude better than winchester.

 

[AMProducts]

Notice I didn't say that Nosler brass is the same as Winchester brass, only that Winchester made the Nosler brass.....

It is unfortunate when people misunderstand what they have read.

There are extra steps which I outlined in post #31. The metallurgy could be different you are right about that, however, I am certain of my "insider info" as you describe it.

OLIN is one of the few companies that sells raw brass supplies in the US. It's possible nosler is getting pre-forms from olin and is doing the finishing steps in house. I usually buy cups from aurubis, to say they're close to finished cases is a pretty big mischaracterization of what it takes to make brass.

 

[P7M13]

Fun Reading. I'm not there yet, but have done lots of reading. Chevalier's 8th edition, twice, plus lots of forum lurking.
Question- the neck split, is this due to thinning of material after it stretches and gets trimmed? Sorry, admitted noob here.
I can be very patient/anal about things, reloading looks like the perfect retirement activity for me, but that's about a decade from now. Assuming it isn't outlawed by then.

The neck splitting would be a function of the metal becoming more brittle with use, known as "work hardening".
If you look at the properties of different metals, important ones to pay attention to with regards to "work hardening" are the modulus of elasticity and elongation at break. What happens to all metals as you bend/move them is that they work harden and then ultimately break. A classic example would be headphone wires.
Brass is used for cases because it is such a ductile/malleable material, stronger than aluminum, with much more tolerant modulus of elascticity and elongation, and still cost effective. It bends easier and bends more before it breaks.
Annealing brass (or aluminum/steel, etc) allows the metal's crystalline structure to change back to it's native state, thereby releasing the stresses caused by work hardening.

 

[Goosebrown]

The Nosler Brass is made by Winchester.... Sorry to burst your bubble...

Well I can tell you it isn't made LIKE Winchester brass. All the Nosler brass I get is within a couple tenths of a grain of each other and exactly the same length. I would guess that Nosler contracts with Winchester to use a different alloy and to sort them better than they do for their own brass. Lots of companies do this, don't have the machinery and so contract with another to do the work with different specs or processes.

The brass is CERTAINLY different than Winchester.

 

[YOURSUPREMECOMMANDER]

Well I can tell you it isn't made LIKE Winchester brass. All the Nosler brass I get is within a couple tenths of a grain of each other and exactly the same length. I would guess that Nosler contracts with Winchester to use a different alloy and to sort them better than they do for their own brass. Lots of companies do this, don't have the machinery and so contract with another to do the work with different specs or processes.

The brass is CERTAINLY different than Winchester.

Thank You! I used to get 3-4 loads out of Winchester before it cracks. Nosler is a completely different story! I'm on my 14th reload with one of my batches of Nosler - I annealed at 7.