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Sure, all the lemmings panic buying groceries are the epitome of defense experts.

I REALLY HOPE that I am misunderstanding and you give me reason to apologize.

It SOUNDS like you are saying that if you have guns and others have food, and lack the ability to defend it, that you will get their food.

Please tell me that I have it wrong...
 
YAAAAAAYYYYY!!! :s0023:

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I REALLY HOPE that I am misunderstanding and you give me reason to apologize.

It SOUNDS like you are saying that if you have guns and others have food, and lack the ability to defend it, that you will get their food.

Please tell me that I have it wrong...
No idea how you got that out of his sentence.
 
Picked up a M2 Benelli receiver for a 14" M2 SBS parts kit that I'm Form 1'ing. I also picked up a 18" barrel with chokes and that sort of thing so I can use it as a normal shotgun . 10 minutes in and out the door. Like usual.

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I stopped in at Oregon arms and ammo today. that place was pretty busy.

I see they've increased their inventory across the whole store which is pretty cool. Been at least a year since i've been through there.
 
May be a good place to ask this question now. If a fellow had a significant number of AR builds with no serial numbers, and many unused receivers for same, what would be the best and most appropriate way to sell such items. The fellow wants to do things correctly. BTW....I am not the person. Asking for an acquaintance.
 
May be a good place to ask this question now. If a fellow had a significant number of AR builds with no serial numbers, and many unused receivers for same, what would be the best and most appropriate way to sell such items. The fellow wants to do things correctly. BTW....I am not the person. Asking for an acquaintance.

Keep the lowers he made and sell the rest as parts. No games -- no giving them away -- keep them or destroy them. While one could argue it isn't technically illegal to sell the DIY lowers if he didn't build them with the intent to sell, the $30 value won't buy 6 minutes of attorney time if he gets any scrutiny.
 
You can sell completed guns built on unserialized lowers. It is not illegal. That is if you live in a state where you can do a ftf transfer. No dealer will do a transfer like that.
 
You can sell completed guns built on unserialized lowers. It is not illegal. That is if you live in a state where you can do a ftf transfer. No dealer will do a transfer like that.

He has a "significant number". The chance the ATF decides he is manufacturing without a license is not zero while the value of the DIY lowers is close to zero. He'd be crazy to take the massive life altering bankrupting risk, to get back an insignificant sum.
 
He has a "significant number". The chance the ATF decides he is manufacturing without a license is not zero while the value of the DIY lowers is close to zero. He'd be crazy to take the massive life altering bankrupting risk, to get back an insignificant sum.

One mans significant number is another mans laughable pittance. The ATF doesnt have a set number but theyve hinted at sales of 50 a year from personal collections before. If he built them with the intent to have them as personal weapons then sells them he is not breaking the law. If his intent was to build them and then sell them as a business opportunity then yes, he is breaking the law. "Engaged in the business" as it were.

In any case there is no federal requirement to ,mark the receivers with makers marks or serial numbers if they are title 1 guns. If he is a MT resident he is good to go to sell them to MT residents directly.
 
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One mans significant number is another mans laughable pittance. The ATF doesnt have a set number but theyve hinted at sales of 50 a year from personal collections before. If he built them with the intent to have them as personal weapons then sells them he is not breaking the law. If his intent was to build them and then sell them as a business opportunity then yes, he is breaking the law. "Engaged in the business" as it were.

In any case there is no federal requirement to ,mark the receivers with makers marks or serial numbers if they are title 1 guns. If he is a MT resident he is good to go to sell them to MT residents directly.

50hrs * $400/hr=$20,000

If he has 10 DIY lowers and they get valued at $30, that's $300.

The cost of the risk vs. the cost of the gain make it incredibly inadvisable.
 
50hrs * $400/hr=$20,000

If he has 10 DIY lowers and they get valued at $30, that's $300.

The cost of the risk vs. the cost of the gain make it incredibly inadvisable.
What risk? He's breaking the law or he's not. Selling a gun built with a home made receiver is not illegal. It's like selling any other used title one gun. What exactly do you think he would be charged with?

The lowers? Nope wouldnt sell those alone especially if they had never been built into a working firearm and used as such but complete guns built with home machined lowers? No problemo . Not illegal in the slightest unless otherwise prohibited by state law.
 
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What risk? He's breaking the law or he's not. ...

I don't want to sound harsh, but that's a very naive way of looking at this because the fact is that the law is extremely grey -- there's no black letter definition of what commercial manufacturing is and consequently, no competent attorney would tell him he could sell those and come out unscathed. Note that unscathed does not mean merely "not guilty" - if an investigation starts, he needs an attorney to help not screwing himself and that will cost thousands more than the pocket change his DIY receivers are worth -- nobody will reimburse him. If he gets prosecuted, tens of thousands of dollars and the risk that he could be convicted.

It is a huge disservice to this person to make him think it is safe to sell DIY receivers. There is no cost/benefit analysis where this looks like a good idea. If he has only a few, that's worth less than $100 -- pocket change. If he has a dozen, that looks suspicious and if the wrong investigator gets wind of it, this guy's life is over. He'll either get convicted, plea bargain, or get off, but no matter how it ends, he will be out 10-100x or more than the value of the junk he wants to sell. Seriously, it's like betting $30 to lose $5000-50,000 -- if you win, you got 4 McD's meals. If you lose, it really is a big deal.
 
It is 100 % legal to sell guns built with DIY receivers just as it is legal to sell a gun you built with a store bought receiver . No difference. Can we agree on that? Selling bare receivers that have not been built into a gun? Legally a little trickier.

When in doubt cite pertinent case law.
 
I will agree that the law says that you can sell them if you didn't intend to sell them when you made them.

The issue is that there is a proof problem. How are is he going to prove he didn't intend to sell them? They aren't going to just accept his word.

Does this guy have a bunch of internet posts and memes of the "I will not comply type"?
Is he making a profit over out of pocket expenses?
Is he saying these as better than factory in any way?
What investment went into getting himself setup to cut these?
Does he still have the tools or is he keeping those?
Is he employed?
Is he in good health?
Why all of sudden during a pandemic does he want to sell them (especially if the two answers above are "yes")?

I'm not a prosecutor and in two minutes I came up with a series of questions that he would want legal help in answering lest he screw himself. Seriously, merely being investigated will cost him thousands of dollars. Why risk that for virtually nothing. He could panhandle $30 in a day if its that big of a deal.
 
Investigated for what? What would he be charged with? Machining a receiver does not make someone a manufacturer. Assembling a receiver does not make you a manufacturer. You know what does make you a manufacturer? Getting an 07 manufacturers FFL license and building firearms and paying excise tax. Your argument that he is somehow going to be seen as a manufacturer because he machined some lowers and built some guns and then some time down the road sold them holds no water. That is not illegal. Selling those guns is not illegal. Its absolutely no different than selling any title 1 gun he built himself from a commercially purchased receiver. The same restrictions apply. Are you saying that it is not legal to buy a receiver and build a gun with it and then down the road sell it? Of course its not illegal. Ive got somewhere around I dont know. 15 or so AR's. I assembled all of them. I used to be a manufacturer . I'm not now and all of mine were built after I gave up my y license. I could still sell all the title 1 AR's I have with no legal worries. Wouldnt lose a minutes sleep over it. Machining a lower and building a gun makes it just like any other title 1 firearm. Some people like to machine their makers marks ( Not manufacturers marks because they arent a manufacturer ) and some serial number like that makes any difference . It doesnt and it isnt required because how in the world is the ATF going to run a trace like that? Some people...like you ... like to have a lot of caution and do things the law does not require to be overly cautious and come up with outrageous scenarios of how overzealous prosecutors are going to run people through the ringer for not breaking laws . Bully for you. Not legally required.
 

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