Father kills 9yp daughter teaching kids gun safety

[tac]

You can say what you like about the UK and its odd take on gun ownership, and I'm sure that some of you will, but here, before you can even APPLY to own a gun, you have the three-month long probation period in the gun club. Some clubs like six months, BTW. During that time you are accustomed to safe gun-handling at all times, and are tested, too, on gun safety as well as range etiquette. Joining in a shotgun syndicate of like-minded shooters here, called a rough shoot, you are expected to already have taken on board the rules of safe gun handling. Anything else that 100% safety will get you kicked out of the syndicate and the word passed around that you are not a safe shot.

Most places in Europe have a mandatory firearms handling course, especially Germany, where possession of a Waffenbezitzkarte is based on a compulsory safety course.

tac

 

[Certaindeaf]

You can say what you like about the UK and its odd take on gun ownership, and I'm sure that some of you will, but here, before you can even APPLY to own a gun, you have the three-month long probation period in the gun club. Some clubs like six months, BTW. During that time you are accustomed to safe gun-handling at all times, and are tested, too, on gun safety as well as range etiquette. Joining in a shotgun syndicate of like-minded shooters here, called a rough shoot, you are expected to already have taken on board the rules of safe gun handling. Anything else that 100% safety will get you kicked out of the syndicate and the word passed around that you are not a safe shot.

Most places in Europe have a mandatory firearms handling course, especially Germany, where possession of a Waffenbezitzkarte is based on a compulsory safety course.

tac

You can say what you like about the US and its odd take on gun ownership but if you're dumb enough to not know what happens when you pull the trigger of a gun, no amount of laws and regulations are going to change that.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

The whole idea of pointing a gun at someone and pulling the trigger and the BS phrase "I thought it was empty" bothers me.
Granted I was not there.
Also granted I am not the most non-biased judge here:
Having been taught early on that you never point at gun at something you don't want to shoot..
Every gun is considered "loaded"...
Four combat tours has shown me first hand what bullets do to human flesh and bone...

So I get that I am not the most understanding of the Father's point of view or actions.
Normally when you do something stupid , you can laugh about it later and hopefully you learn not to repeat your actions.
With guns , if you do something stupid , someone can end up dead....there are no "Do overs" and you can't call that bullet back.
If you can't understand that ... then you shouldn't be around guns.
Andy

 

[CLT65]

You can say what you like about the UK and its odd take on gun ownership, and I'm sure that some of you will, but here, before you can even APPLY to own a gun, you have the three-month long probation period in the gun club. Some clubs like six months, BTW. During that time you are accustomed to safe gun-handling at all times, and are tested, too, on gun safety as well as range etiquette. Joining in a shotgun syndicate of like-minded shooters here, called a rough shoot, you are expected to already have taken on board the rules of safe gun handling. Anything else that 100% safety will get you kicked out of the syndicate and the word passed around that you are not a safe shot.

Most places in Europe have a mandatory firearms handling course, especially Germany, where possession of a Waffenbezitzkarte is based on a compulsory safety course.

tac

The anti-gunner's dream here is to get more people accepting European restrictions. They would have their dreams come true.

I'm a huge proponent of safety and education. There is a strong culture of safety in the U.S. gun owning community, at least more so than in the past. I would love to see that safety culture far stronger, with gun dealers pushing voluntary safety training with every sale. I push gun safety hard pretty much every time I talk guns with anyone. We can improve the safety culture ourselves without Big Brother mandating everything we do.

In order to mandate safety training before someone can have a gun, you will need full European style controls on who has what and when, every gun registered and every owner licensed. I just don't believe that we need that here.

Edited with sincere apologies to tac. I misunderstood your intent and posted without thinking it through.

 

[Caveman Jim]

No offense Tac, but the anti-gunner's dream here is to get more people thinking exactly like you. They would have their dreams come true. The restrictions you tout are anathema to most folks on this forum.

I'm a huge proponent of safety and education. There is a strong culture of safety in the U.S. gun owning community, at least more so than in the past. I would love to see that safety culture far stronger, with gun dealers pushing voluntary safety training with every sale. I push gun safety hard pretty much every time I talk guns with anyone. We can improve the safety culture ourselves without Big Brother mandating everything we do.

In order to mandate safety training before someone can have a gun, you will need full European style controls on who has what and when, every gun registered and every owner licensed. I just don't believe that we need that here.

Exactly, Those that fled Britsh rule coming to uncharted lands made America a free country, free of the vast controlling monarchs.
There are idiotic people all over this big ole world and no rules are going to be able to stop them from doing STUPID things like this. Whats needed is that TPTB have got to ENFORCE the laws that are already written!!!

 

[fredball]

Who points any gun at their own chikdern what a Fing Dumb AZZ zero excuses

 

[SparksFly]

This is awful. Hopefully it will help teach people that the issue is not the guns when it comes to accidental shootings such as this one, but rather the lack of proper gun education that so many in our country have. Wishful thinking on my part though.

 

[tac]

No offense Tac, but the anti-gunner's dream here is to get more people thinking exactly like you. They would have their dreams come true. The restrictions you tout are anathema to most folks on this forum.

? Sir, I think you'll find that far from 'touting' the rules here in yUK, I'm simply pointing them out. I support ANY gun safety education - I'm a life member NRA instructor, and at least part of my range time - that's about three times a week, BTW - is spent instructing, so where you have acquired the idea that I support the raft of stupid laws here in UK is totally beyond me.

Remember that unlike YOU, I have to live with these rules, comply with these rules, teach these rules, and enforce these rules. The option is to take up knitting, or something less noisy and expensive than shooting.

Please read my 3000+ posts here, and tell me where I said that all this c**p, that we have to deal with in order to do something that YOU get for free, is really great stuff.

tac

 

[CLT65]

My sincere apologies tac. I misunderstood your post and typed without thinking it through. Seems I've been doing that a lot lately. I've edited my post, with apologies.

We are on the same page when it comes to safety. I've heard and seen far too many stories like the one that started this thread. Heartbreaking.

 

[FortRock]

Having read all the above and considering the matter, the content with tac is minor. Yes, feeds the anti-gunner. This matter is gut-wrenching. Sorry for the dad, but he should be isolated for the rest of his days and considered a suicide risk immediately. The notion that he was pointing a firearm at his children at all is disgusting. No amount of safety training would have helped him. This was just stupid. However, this is 'Merica. We have about 350 million people and 300 million firearms. We have a lot of dangerous people and stupid people. We also have a lot of good, smart, and careful people and most of us cherish our hard fought for freedom. I would favor a national gun safety curriculum provided voluntarily to all American citizens paid for by our government. Oregon is providing free abortions for anyone at any stage of pregnancy, why not try to save a few folks? Just a thought.

 

[Sandaholic]

I don't think we should make it mandatory for people to get training. I'd like to see the salesperson ask if the purchaser is a first time gun buyer. If yes then they need to read and say aloud the 4 rules:

1. Always treat all firearms as if they were loaded.
2. Never allow the muzzle of any firearm to point at anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Never put your finger near the trigger until you are ready to fire. Do not depend on any mechanical device for safety!
4. Always be sure of your target, and what is beyond it.

After they have read them aloud the salesperson says "It is highly recommended that you seek firearms handling instruction or at the very least a hunters safety course".


Quick simple and bases covered. We can't protect everyone from every situation in life. And I don't want more rules and regulations even if they are 'a good idea'. I hate reading or hearing about stories like this. Just sucks.

 

[tac]

The long probie time here is mainly because the vast majority of people have NEVER laid hands on ANY kind of gun, let alone a BB or air gun, and also because the time gives them a chance to see ALL the types of comps and styles of shooting that ARE available here. It also gives them a chance to try out every single kind of gun that we have, with two exceptions - only the owner of a long-barrelled handgun can shoot it, and the same goes for shotguns with magazines more than three rounds, as used in Practical Shotgun. I forgot to mention .50cal BMG, but then our range is not cleared for this level of firearm.

By the time they have served their 'sentence' they have a good idea what they want to shoot, and what they want to shoot it with. Remember that here in yUK, if you buy a gun, and for some reason you don't like it, you are stuck with it until you do ALL the paperwork ALL OVER AGAIN - called a variation. No going into the local dealer and swapping it out on the spot. The system ensures that it is just not only impossible, but highly illegal under the laws that pertain in the yUK.

tac

 

[tac]

I would favor a national gun safety curriculum provided voluntarily to all American citizens paid for by our government.

Should be maybe at 5/6th Grade?

'Remember, safety is not just in your hands, it's in your head, too'.

tac

 

[Certaindeaf]

There's the longstanding Eddie Eagle gun safety program that's been available, for free, to kids in schools and whatnot for quite a while now.. that the liberal establishment will not allow into those hallowed halls of learning. They are too busy teaching the important things like how to put a condom on a cucumber, how to burn the flag, and whatnot.

NRA Explore | Eddie Eagle

 

[Koda]

The problem here in America is on the anti-gun politicians shoulders, since the beginning, have fostered a prohibition method in response to accidents and violence. Instead of promoting safety education programs and violence programs to provide mental health help and individual crisis intervention programs.

We do not need european style permission and regulation to keep and bear arms safely and responsibly.

 

[Koda]

There's the longstanding Eddie Eagle gun safety program that's been available, for free, to kids in schools and whatnot for quite a while now.. that the liberal establishment will not allow into those hallowed halls of learning. They are too busy teaching the important things like how to put a condom on a cucumber, how to burn the flag, and whatnot.

NRA Explore | Eddie Eagle

Exactly... The onus of all gun accidents is on the shoulders of the anti-gun politicians et. al.

 

[CLT65]

While I am opposed to extra regulations and restrictions, it does scare me sometimes to see people buying guns who know little to nothing about guns. It's actually amazing that there aren't more accidents than there are.

I've had friends over the years buy guns as beginners, and I'm something of an extremist when it comes to safety. I would pile all my gun in the back yard and burn them before seeing one of my kids hurt with them.

I've seen the aftermath of that, and it is soul crushing for all involved. Many years ago a friend sold a rifle to a guy (nobody I knew). He got word later that there was a freak accident that killed the guys young daughter. A bullet ricocheted and a fragment hit her. My friend wasn't at fault in any way but it affected him for life because he was involved. I'd burn my guns and melt the remains to slag if I thought it would prevent something like that.

I teach my kids safety every single time they are around a gun, and push it with anyone else too.

Regarding the Eddy Eagle program, I recently read a news article online crowing how a federal review had determined that the "NRA Eddy Eagle Program" is ineffective, that kids who went through it were just as likely to be curious and handle a found gun as those who hadn't. The strong insinuation being that instead of teaching kids how to stay safe around guns we need to just get rid of the guns.

Here's my thought about that. Eddy Eagle is a starting point. Of course a short training session will have minimal effect on behavior. Any trainer teaching anything knows that. It's just a real good starting point that needs expounded and reinforced over time.

For comparison, how effective would a short sex-ed program be at controlling the behavior of high school kids? Should we demand total abstinence because a short introductory program isn't terribly effective?

The left has a meltdown when conservatives suggest a combination of sex-ed with abstinence education, but then they insist that total abstinence from firearms is the only answer.

I'd like to see the industry and community as a whole step up and push safety harder, especially for new owners. I think we do well in general, but we can do better too.

 

[FortRock]

Guess I should have put the word "voluntarily" earlier in the sentence. There would be lots of ways to do it. But government involvement in anything always goes awry. I worry that if law-abiding gun owners don't step up, the anti's are going to gain traction. I just have this notion that we need to own the solution, not chase defense. Eddie Eagle is great for younger kids, but usually, gun savie parents are the parents that access it for their kids. We need to get wider than that. There are already laws prohibiting the kind of behavior this perp displayed. Sorry for the random pondering. Just trying to process this stupid and tragic loss.

 

[Silver Hand]

I am just sorry for the kid and the fact her brothers had to watch her die and bleed out in such a manner. I am sure the father wishes he had taken a class in gun safety and equally sure mom wants to die as well, so to relieve the pain of her loss.
I carried a bow and arrow for several years, then later an MT 4/10 short, single shot smoke pole, for another year. At the age of then 12years my dad gave me one shell as we continued our way through the woods together hunting small game.

Twenty five years later someone was in the house after mid night, knocking things over in the dark.
From a sound sleep I reached for my mod 66 .357 and quietly stood in the bed room door way prepared and waiting as my four year old daughter made her way back to her bed room from the bath room, having never turned on a light.
I was shaking then and can still feel the tremors just writing about this. I do it in the hopes we all realize no power on earth can ever bring back a bullet.
Silver Hand

 

[CLT65]

An acquaintance told me a similar story years ago, about hearing an outside door open and an intruder sneaking around in his house, how he crept out with his shotgun and came within a hair's breadth of pulling the trigger on his teenage son, who had gone out to get something he'd forgotten out in the car.