FAL or AR10 ?

[mthieme]

So, I'm contemplating a 308 for hunting medium-larger size game. I have a couple AR15's and am impressed with their accuracy, versatility and modularity. But 223 is obviously not the best choice for larger game. Hence the allure with either an AR10 or FAL platform. Before caliber wars break out I'm dead set on 308. I have a bad shoulder and anything larger in 30 caliber is out of the question which would be flat enough and have energy at say 300 yards to take at least a deer. Having looked a bit I would lean toward the S&W M&P10 for the AR or a PTR in the FAL. Which platform (not make and/or model) do you prefer and why? Do you hunt with it? What game? How big of a projectile can I expect to reliably feed through either and shoot accurately? Since these platforms were designed to shoot 7.62 NATO 147 grain-ish projectiles, and I will want to load 200 grain+ projectiles should I expect to replace the barrel with a more suitable twist? Or would I be trying to do something that these military clones are simply not well suited for as opposed to a more traditional bolt action rifle? Thanks for your time.

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[hker71]

I lean toward the AR-10 platform. There are so many different options available for customizing it. It is also nice since you are familiar with the AR platform. A couple of my friends have DPMS rifles and love them. Another has a Colt 901.

I owned an LMT 308 MWS at one point, but sold it because it was to heavy for my taste. I bought a SCAR-17 and love it, but I'm not looking for a tack driver (I have no patience to be that accurate). I can hit what I'm shooting at and it is fun.

I had a Springfield Armory SAR-4800 and while it was cool looking it was heavy and I prefer to shot the AR platform. I know lots of people love the FAL platform, but it was not for me. I even hunted with one of my HK 91's one season, but I got tired of lugging it around.

As far as accuracy I can say I have shot one of my friend's DPMS rifles and it was very accurate. My friend's Colt 901 outshot my LMT 308 MWS and was 3/4 the price of my rifle.

It comes down to what feels more comfortable and how much you are willing to spend. This was just my two cents. Good luck.

 

[The Heretic]

If you want accuracy potential, then you will probably find it easier with the AR platform.

If you want more reliability (including the ability to adjust the gas port - which would be something to consider if you want it to work with different loads for hunting) and standardization in 7.62x51 parts/etc., then you will find more with the FN-FAL - IMO.

If you want accuracy out of the box, the adjustable gas port and want the ability to change calibers (762x51, 762x39, 5.56x45 and more), a more compact rifle and don't mind bullpups, then wait for the DT MDR.

http://deserttech.com/mdr.php

 

[Martini_Up]

PTR (91) isn't the same thing as a FAL (Fusil Automatique Léger).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTR_91F

If you want accuracy AND the choice is between the three rifles you list, I would say the AR10.

Reliability, FAL... as long as it's not some kit gun thrown together in Bubba's basement with a dremel and vice-grip pliers.

 

[mjbskwim]

Neither one for hunting.I wouldn't be seen in the woods hunting big game with a military rifle.No need for it.Too heavy and if you really need more than 4-5 shots,you need more time at the range. Plenty of bolt guns come with magazines or can be fitted with them if you want that option
Bolt guns are by far,more accurate anyway.
As far as the difference between a FAL and an AR,the FAL wasn't made for long distance shooting and the new AR 10 barrels will hold great accuracy

 

[mjbskwim]

PTR (91) isn't the same thing as a FAL (Fusil Automatique Léger).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_FAL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTR_91F

If you want accuracy AND the choice is between the three rifles you list, I would say the AR10.

Reliability, FAL... as long as it's not some kit gun thrown together in Bubba's basement with a dremel and vice-grip pliers.

Now between these 2 I would,or should say did pick the "91" style.Just a personal preference, but there is no difference in the reliability of the FAL and the 91 clones.Had both,both spit out boolits from all corners of the globe very nicely

 

[The Heretic]

Neither one for hunting.I wouldn't be seen in the woods hunting big game with a military rifle.No need for it.Too heavy and if you really need more than 4-5 shots,you need more time at the range. Plenty of bolt guns come with magazines or can be fitted with them if you want that option
Bolt guns are by far,more accurate anyway.
As far as the difference between a FAL and an AR,the FAL wasn't made for long distance shooting and the new AR 10 barrels will hold great accuracy

a) The most accurate rifle I ever shot was an M1A that did 0.5 MOA and would do better in the hands of a skilled shooter (I am mediocre). I've owned a number of bolt actions and none of them would shoot that well. Granted, this was a highly modified rifle (an AWC G2A bullpup), but you can get MOA accuracy with an AR - if that is what you want.

b) Some people just want one rifle for everything. I've taken all of my deer in western Oregon under 100 yards. Some with an old .30-30 that has taken all kinds of game (including black bear and elk when used by my grandfather) but won't shoot better than 2 MOA, some with a scoped bolt action. If all I had was a military rifle, I would use it for hunting and I don't give a bubblegum what other people think.

If SHTF, I wouldn't be hunting with a bolt action, I would be out in the woods with an AK, and the deer wouldn't know any difference between that AK and an old .30-30 - they would be just as dead. Anything beyond 150 yards and I probably wouldn't see them anyway the way the woods are (that said, I can sometimes shoot deer from my porch - hell, one came onto my patio last summer and I could have hit it with a rock from my recliner).

 

[The Heretic]

Now between these 2 I would,or should say did pick the "91" style.Just a personal preference, but there is no difference in the reliability of the FAL and the 91 clones.Had both,both spit out boolits from all corners of the globe very nicely

The FAL has the advantage of an adjustable gas port - but yes, I've owned and shot both (an HK, not a clone) with equal reliability.

If going for the FAL, I would go with a DSA, not one of the Frankenstein guns, or Imbel or something like that. A real FN, or British, or an Israeli FAL are good, but expensive. The DSA is metric, well made, has whichever variation you want, and is a reasonable price - especially for a well made rifle.

 

[Mr Smith]

AR .308 platform built to DPMS spec rather than armalite spec.

DPMS spec uses many AR15 parts including gas blocks, gas tubes, triggers, grips, buffer tube and buffer spring (buffer is a special .308 buffer which is readily available) so that part someone mentioned about the AR platform not being able to adjust gas flow is completely false. Syrac ordinance for example makes an adjustable gas block for the AR-15 and if you buy or build yourself a DPMS spec AR .308 (AR-10 is technically in reference to the Armalite spec rifle) you would run an AR15 gas block and gas tube which means you can run adjustable gas blocks.

Now the part about an AR not being as accurate as a bolt gun? I beg to differ... I have seen an AR .308 in a shooting competition which was the only gas gun present in that competition and it out-shot all of the bolt guns and easily held its own with deadly precision. The AR platform is so ridiculously customizable that you can compensate for recoil, put competition triggers in them for crisp breaks and trigger control, attach sniper stocks for operator comfort and ergonomics, and get some of the worlds most accurate barrels for them that bolt right in so to speak and be deadly accurate. Technology has come a long ways and the bolt gun supremacy is coming to an end.

You can also free float the barrel to ensure you stay on target.

Now I'm not saying a cheaply slapped together gas gun will outshoot a high end bolt gun, but a custom built gas gun made specifically for precision accuracy certainly can hold its own against a bolt gun.

 

[The Heretic]

You can get an adjustable gas port for an AK too.

Anything is possible.

But is it standard? Do you get it out of the box? Will it still be compatible with other rifles of the same design? Will a person who has ran a similar rifle without the mod know how to work this rifle?

All things to consider when make a mod to a rifle in such a way that it changes standard way it operates.

Not saying don't do it - hell, I owned a bullpup M1A for years - I am just saying that a person should consider all the ramifications.

Personally I don't care for DI gas systems. I know there are ways to make them more reliable, I just don't like the design. That said, the AR platform has the most variations and mods to make the rifle very accurate, and if I wanted a tack driving semi-auto with a large capacity mag - say for hunting feral pigs - the AR would be on the short list. I am hoping the DT MDR makes the top of that list as I am a bullpup fan.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Dont go the PTR route.. After enough playing around with that type of system Ive found them to be problematic. The only way those stay in tune is with constant checkups..etc.

Now between an FAL and AR10(variant)

Id go with the AR10.

More modular, magazines are just as cheap and getting cheaper than an FAL (currently)
A very nice entrylevel AR10 is very affordable now.. FALs can really get up there in price, and you lose some of that modularity going with a fixed stock
(which is generally cheaper than the para model)

The AR10 is my next semi auto .308 in my sights.. After a few other toys of course.

 

[mthieme]

Yes, it appears the AR10 platform is the general concensus.
That helps tremendously.

Has anyone actually used an AR10 for hunting?
Should I be posting in the Hunting topic?

 

[The Heretic]

Consider this if you like modularity and versatility and have settled on the AR: get a "pistol" lower.

You can put a short barrel upper on it without it being an NFA firearm.

You can put the SIG brace on it to give you something that is pretty close to a shoulder stock, and still keep the short barrel upper.

With a CHL you can carry it loaded and concealed - can't do that with a rifle. If you want it to have a rifle length barrel on it and still be a pistol, you can do that too.

You can put a rifle stock on it with a rifle upper, and now it is a rifle. You can change it back to a "pistol" by removing the stock and putting the pistol buffer tube and SIG brace on it.

This is all legal. No SBR stamp needed as long as you get a pistol lower and never put the rifle buttstock on it with an upper with a barrel shorter than 16".

 

[mrblond]

If you have extra cash, I would look at the SCAR S as well. Its light, rugged and very accurate.

Also in that price range is the LaRue OBR. One of the most accurate rifles you can get.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Consider this if you like modularity and versatility and have settled on the AR: get a "pistol" lower.

You can put a short barrel upper on it without it being an NFA firearm.

You can put the SIG brace on it to give you something that is pretty close to a shoulder stock, and still keep the short barrel upper.

With a CHL you can carry it loaded and concealed - can't do that with a rifle. If you want it to have a rifle length barrel on it and still be a pistol, you can do that too.

You can put a rifle stock on it with a rifle upper, and now it is a rifle. You can change it back to a "pistol" by removing the stock and putting the pistol buffer tube and SIG brace on it.

This is all legal. No SBR stamp needed as long as you get a pistol lower and never put the rifle buttstock on it with an upper with a barrel shorter than 16".

^ Shoot, do this instead! Sneaky idears, I like it.

 

[mthieme]

Way too pricey. I'm going to try to stay as close to a grand as I can.
I can find an Armalite cheapest, S&W next. I'm sure I could be happy with either of those choices.

 

[Flopsweat]

As the owner of a DPMS AR10, I'd recommend the S&W M&P10. I really like my Panther, but if I had it to do again I'd have gone with the Smith if they made them back then. As for adjustable gas blocks, I've shot all kinds of handloads from lightweight subsonic to max recommended pressure. I've run these through various AR10s and AR15s and I've never had the need to adjust the gas pressure. The secret is to use the correct gas block/buffer/spring combination from the start. The easiest way to accomplish that is to have S&W build the gun for you. Pretty sure the AR15 that I just built will run anything too. I may just have to try that over the holidays.

 

[jmurray192]

I own a sig716 and use it for hunting. I use a nikon 308 scope. It is heavy and bulky. I'm in pretty good shape and doing a lot of walking with a magpul sling gets tiring fast. Like said above not the best for hunting but I love it.

 

[madcratebuilder]

AR .308 platform built to DPMS spec rather than armalite spec.

Do you mean the difference in magazines? DPMS uses the SR25 style, The AR-10A uses SR25 and the AR10B uses the M14 style mag. There are other 7.62 AR's that use G3 and FAL mags. The SR25 has become the defacto standard.

I'm invested in the M14 style as I adopted the platform some time ago. If I was just getting my first 7.62/.308 AR it would be the SR25 style and I would probably stay with ArmaLite or LMT.

DPMS spec uses many AR15 parts including gas blocks, gas tubes, triggers, grips, buffer tube and buffer spring (buffer is a special .308 buffer which is readily available) so that part someone mentioned about the AR platform not being able to adjust gas flow is completely false. Syrac ordinance for example makes an adjustable gas block for the AR-15 and if you buy or build yourself a DPMS spec AR .308 (AR-10 is technically in reference to the Armalite spec rifle) you would run an AR15 gas block and gas tube which means you can run adjustable gas blocks.

ArmaLite also uses many same common AR15 parts. ArmaLite does use a longer RE and heavier buffer, this reduces felt recoil. The DPMS uses AR15 size RE with a modded carbine buffer. Gas blocks just depends on th ebarrel, my 16" AR10 carbine is .750 at the GB as most 5.56 barrels.

Now the part about an AR not being as accurate as a bolt gun? I beg to differ... I have seen an AR .308 in a shooting competition which was the only gas gun present in that competition and it out-shot all of the bolt guns and easily held its own with deadly precision. The AR platform is so ridiculously customizable that you can compensate for recoil, put competition triggers in them for crisp breaks and trigger control, attach sniper stocks for operator comfort and ergonomics, and get some of the worlds most accurate barrels for them that bolt right in so to speak and be deadly accurate. Technology has come a long ways and the bolt gun supremacy is coming to an end.

You can also free float the barrel to ensure you stay on target.

Now I'm not saying a cheaply slapped together gas gun will outshoot a high end bolt gun, but a custom built gas gun made specifically for precision accuracy certainly can hold its own against a bolt gun.

+10

The 7.62/.308 AR should be more accurate than any rifle that has a gas cylinder attached to the barrel like the M14/M1A, M1C and most other military gas guns. The absence of moving parts on a floated barrel is a advantage.

 

[RB87]

Sort of a side question here but does anyone have any experience with the DSA FAL Voyager model (aka cheap version)? I've not found much about it review wise online.