Everybody's favorite hoax is back!

[locobob]

So what "green technologies" will help?

Tech is great and all but it's really not the place to start.
We can do a ton to both conserve energy and improve our environment just by encouraging smarter urban design on a local and regional scale.
For example: more mixed use zoning allowing small stores within walking distance of housing, building codes designed for passive solar efficiency, localized power generation, policies that encourage rail rather than long haul trucking, recycling and weatherization programs, etc. etc.
Even if man-made global warming turns out to be a false alarm these types of "green" policies have benefits of their own.... how about less middle eastern oil use for starters... anybody think that is a bad thing?

 

[slingshot1943]

The people pushing this GB BS are the same ones that want gun control. Many of them are in the UN. It's not really about guns or climate, it's about control.

 

[dmancornell]

Tech is great and all but it's really not the place to start.
We can do a ton to both conserve energy and improve our environment just by encouraging smarter urban design on a local and regional scale.
For example: more mixed use zoning allowing small stores within walking distance of housing, building codes designed for passive solar efficiency, localized power generation, policies that encourage rail rather than long haul trucking, recycling and weatherization programs, etc. etc.
Even if man-made global warming turns out to be a false alarm these types of "green" policies have benefits of their own.... how about less middle eastern oil use for starters... anybody think that is a bad thing?

Yeah that's all nice and good, but what if people don't *want* to do all that? All those things you described, if done via government diktat via taxes and price controls, amount to nothing more than government theft. Even if it fixes the problem, it is a completely unjust and unacceptable "solution".

 

[locobob]

Yeah that's all nice and good, but what if people don't *want* to do all that? All those things you described, if done via government diktat via taxes and price controls, amount to nothing more than government theft. Even if it fixes the problem, it is a completely unjust and unacceptable "solution".

What will make you happy? No government at all, complete chaos? Do you want privatized roads, sewer systems, fire departments? If government provides a service for us via tax dollars it is not theft... quite often it is simply the most efficient way of providing the necessary support structures for a modern society. Shall we get rid of local zoning laws too? Perhaps you'd like a giant smoke spewing factory to be built next to your house. Try using a little common sense here, seriously.

 

[dmancornell]

What will make you happy? No government at all, complete chaos? Do you want privatized roads, sewer systems, fire departments? If government provides a service for us via tax dollars it is not theft... quite often it is simply the most efficient way of providing the necessary support structures for a modern society. Shall we get rid of local zoning laws too? Perhaps you'd like a giant smoke spewing factory to be built next to your house. Try using a little common sense here, seriously.

The only alternative to a government that doesn't profiteer from the population is complete chaos? Good one. By the way, the government has already stolen that money (hence the theft), providing us with crappy monopolized services is kinda like tossing back the broken toaster after robbing the entire house.

Are you aware of the fact that governments outlawed private roads, FD/PD because they didn't like competition? Historically there has been very little actual data proving that governments are the most efficient purveyors of said services, so your claim is meaningless.

And yes, I want private roads. Any driver in Portland knows the roads here are run by idiots. There is no way a for-profit toll road could be so poorly managed.

 

[locobob]

The only alternative to a government that doesn't profiteer from the population is complete chaos? Good one. By the way, the government has already stolen that money (hence the theft), providing us with crappy monopolized services is kinda like tossing back the broken toaster after robbing the entire house.

Are you aware of the fact that governments outlawed private roads, FD/PD because they didn't like competition? Historically there has been very little actual data proving that governments are the most efficient purveyors of said services, so your claim is meaningless.

And yes, I want private roads. Any driver in Portland knows the roads here are run by idiots. There is no way a for-profit toll road could be so poorly managed.

Wow, so you'd rather pay a toll at every corner than a tax bill. I'd really like to see you spend some time in your fully privatized world, I think it would be a real eye opener for you. Show me somewhere in the world where your fanciful little system works, oh wait, there isn't one is there now. Case closed.

 

[dmancornell]

Wow, so you'd rather pay a toll at every corner than a tax bill. I'd really like to see you spend some time in your fully privatized world, I think it would be a real eye opener for you. Show me somewhere in the world where your fanciful little system works, oh wait, there isn't one is there now. Case closed.

Sure, there isn't one because statists like yourself made it impossible because you prefer to be robbed up front for services possibly rendered, usually poorly. I guess that ought to be the real eye-opener, as in how anyone can put up with being robbed every two weeks for little to no return, and still like it and ask for more.

On the other hand, if you don't get robbed (i.e. pay taxes), then it makes perfect sense.

 

[Trlsmn]

Wow, so you'd rather pay a toll at every corner than a tax bill. I'd really like to see you spend some time in your fully privatized world, I think it would be a real eye opener for you. Show me somewhere in the world where your fanciful little system works, oh wait, there isn't one is there now. Case closed.

I would like to move to this privatized world, a world where I only pay for what I use and not for any freeloaders to use, it sounds like paradise to me!

True socialism is where everyone works and earns their keep and larger projects are paid in a communal fashion, not where 1/2 the people work and 1/2 the people freeload.

 

[iusmc2002]

I would like to move to this privatized world, a world where I only pay for what I use and not for any freeloaders to use, it sounds like paradise to me!
True socialism is where everyone works and earns their keep and larger projects are paid in a communal fashion, not where 1/2 the people work and 1/2 the people freeload.

+1000!

 

[Bigfoot]

Oh for gods sake are you guys still arguing over Global Warming? In 2011? It stopped in 1998. Thirteen years ago. You guys are stuck in the 90's. Shave off that goatee, take off the plaid shirt, ok you can leave the Nirvana CD in but get with it.

 

[CharonPDX]

Oh for gods sake are you guys still arguing over Global Warming? In 2011? It stopped in 1998. Thirteen years ago. You guys are stuck in the 90's. Shave off that goatee, take off the plaid shirt, ok you leave the Nirvana CD in but get with it.

But I'm in Portland... The '90s never died here.

 

[Bigfoot]

But I'm in Portland... The '90s never died here.

Yeah. I see that I'm wearing a...flannel..........plaid.......shirt. But the goatee is gone.

 

[rufus]

Oh for gods sake are you guys still arguing over Global Warming? In 2011? It stopped in 1998. Thirteen years ago. You guys are stuck in the 90's. Shave off that goatee, take off the plaid shirt, ok you can leave the Nirvana CD in but get with it.

Winner!

 

[iusmc2002]

But I'm in Portland... The '90s never died here.

The weird-*** '60s and '70s never died there, the '90s were just a continuation of that strange culture

 

[locobob]

I would like to move to this privatized world, a world where I only pay for what I use and not for any freeloaders to use, it sounds like paradise to me!

True socialism is where everyone works and earns their keep and larger projects are paid in a communal fashion, not where 1/2 the people work and 1/2 the people freeload.

You guys should go try that somewhere on a small scale and get back to us in a few decades on how it went. My prediction is: Corporatocracy would reign in short order and "might" would "make right". I looked over the Libertarian platform you folks seem to be preaching from and frankly it looks like a chaotic disaster to me. A lot of it sounds great if you picture a mercantile economy of small shops and craftsmen but that's not reality now is it? I see nothing there at all that puts any brakes on monopoly and corporate abuse of power, you just gonna take them to court and claim they did you harm when they poison the air? You against their wheelbarrows of cash and phalanx of legal counsel... good luck with that. Much of the thinking seems routed in J.S. Mill's "harm" concept of liberty but even Mill recognized the difficultly of trying to put this into practice in any remotely pure form..... and he was writing a century and a half ago. Take a look at chapter 5 of "On Liberty" if you don't believe me.

 

[Sling Blade]

Oh for gods sake are you guys still arguing over Global Warming? In 2011? It stopped in 1998. Thirteen years ago. You guys are stuck in the 90's. Shave off that goatee, take off the plaid shirt, ok you can leave the Nirvana CD in but get with it.

You are my new hero.

 

[Sling Blade]

You guys should go try that somewhere on a small scale and get back to us in a few decades on how it went. My prediction is: Corporatocracy would reign in short order and "might" would "make right". I looked over the Libertarian platform you folks seem to be preaching from and frankly it looks like a chaotic disaster to me. A lot of it sounds great if you picture a mercantile economy of small shops and craftsmen but that's not reality now is it? I see nothing there at all that puts any brakes on monopoly and corporate abuse of power, you just gonna take them to court and claim they did you harm when they poison the air? You against their wheelbarrows of cash and phalanx of legal counsel... good luck with that. Much of the thinking seems routed in J.S. Mill's "harm" concept of liberty but even Mill recognized the difficultly of trying to put this into practice in any remotely pure form..... and he was writing a century and a half ago. Take a look at chapter 5 of "On Liberty" if you don't believe me.

Oh, go ahead and let them build their own roads, ditches and culverts. They can manufacture their own street and traffic signs too. On weekends they can build their own hospitals and schools and hydro plants and airports. Shouldn't take too much time for rugged individualists.

 

[coop44]

too many people , too much trash, too much stuff being burned, too much forest being destroyed, warmer in some places colder in others, more flooding, more droughts, crops on the decline, bees dying, I'm just a country feller but does any of this sound good?

let's look at it this way, when all of the culture medium in a petri dish is consumed what happens to the inhabitants of the dish? when all of the trees on easter island were cut down for nonsense, what happened?

once all the available resources in an area are consumed a population with no natural enemies (other than themselves)either moves on or dies.

Where the **** are we going to go?

something seems to be hitting the fan, and it does not smell good

 

[rufus]

So it's the federal government's responsibility to build roads, ditches, culverts, hospitals and schools, manufacture and maintain traffic signs? No wonder you guys are so confused, you have no idea how things work.


Maybe it's time for a refresher in the basics: U.S. GOVERNMENT - Introduction to the U.S. System

 

[Both Eyes Open]

too many people , too much trash, too much stuff being burned, too much forest being destroyed, warmer in some places colder in others, more flooding, more droughts, crops on the decline, bees dying, I'm just a country feller but does any of this sound good?

let's look at it this way, when all of the culture medium in a petri dish is consumed what happens to the inhabitants of the dish? when all of the trees on easter island were cut down for nonsense, what happened?

once all the available resources in an area are consumed a population with no natural enemies (other than themselves)either moves on or dies.

Where the **** are we going to go?

something seems to be hitting the fan, and it does not smell good

Careful with all that "Evidence" stuff. You sound a lot like one of those "Sciencers"! lol