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Eugene Stoner AR Operating System is not a conventional impinging gas system

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by titsonritz, Dec 14, 2015.

  1. titsonritz

    titsonritz has left the building. Well-Known Member

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    Over and out
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2016
  2. JRuby

    JRuby St. Helens Oregon Well-Known Member

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    It certainly is a gas system - piston driven NO. The bolt is not a piston. Call it what you will. I will call the Standard AR a direct infringement rifle since the bolt is directly impacted on by the gas from the round fired. There is nothing but a tube between the barrel and the bolt for the gas to travel down.
     
  3. Charliehorse

    Charliehorse Cascade Mts - State of Jefferson USA Well-Known Member

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    Interesting read.
    I'm not an expert on AR's by any means and my understanding is based on the Adams Arms piston having the piston end of the rod mounted directly at the gas port of the barrel. The piston rod then extends into the breech and acts upon the bolt. Hence they run cleaner because gas is not entered directly into the breech.
    Whereas the gas impingement/gas operated pipes the gas directly inside the breach and the gas acts directly on the bolt. Hence they run dirtier.
     
  4. Charliehorse

    Charliehorse Cascade Mts - State of Jefferson USA Well-Known Member

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    How does a gas operated shotgun work and does it apply to your point about a 'true direct impingement system'? Because there is no gas tube on them.
     
  5. Charliehorse

    Charliehorse Cascade Mts - State of Jefferson USA Well-Known Member

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    Thx
     
  6. JRuby

    JRuby St. Helens Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I cannot think of a piston driven rifle that as you say doesn't have an option rod. - what I call the piston. Perhaps other than the AR is there one? I know that FN FAL , FN49, M14, Garlands all have them.
     
  7. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    wow haven't heard this argument in a while.....Titz is right by the way

    this is one of those technical splitting hair subjects but he is right.

    force is strong with this one , most people don't know enough words to argue about this subject
     
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  8. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    op rod AR

    solution looking for a problem
     
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  9. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Stoner invented the Armalite 18 and it has a gas piston.
    My Armalite 180 is a great rifle and operates very smoothly.

    upload_2015-12-14_14-5-8.jpeg
     
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  10. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    same, but I still say DI and piston to avoid the conversation lol......I like to read it every now and then anyway so thank you.....its nice to bring some facts to the webz every now and then

    Honestly I don't even enter into the whole dispute between op rod and gas tubes anymore with folks , everyone who is sold on them think they have just found a way to have their cake and eat it too but really they just added weight, reciprocating mass and a few un needed moving parts but hey the lazy bastards don't have to clean a BCG anymore so yippy.......lazy has sold a lot of crap over the years
     
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  11. JRuby

    JRuby St. Helens Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I can buy that explanation thank you. Where does the hk91 type rifles fit in?
     
  12. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Okay, so as I'm not much of a student of the AR, more of a fan, does that mean that my 'piston' Ruger SR-556e is, in fact, a piston AR? It has the gas control dial, unlike the usual AR's I see. Or does it fall under the hybrids you're discussing here?
     
  13. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    All you guys listen up, here is the final say on this argument.
    Bonus points if you make it through the whole video.


     
  14. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    It's James Yeager, I won't even start the video o_O
     
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  15. Boboclown

    Boboclown North Carolina Well-Known Member

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    Easier to type "DI vs. piston" than to type out "piston vs operating rod AR." Even if it is wrong. Less arguing about it too.

    But as for owning either one, I have a few regular ARs and a piston. My only piston is a PWS Mk216. Which doesn't have that many moving parts. Not too heavy compared to the LMT MWS I originally wanted either. I'm of the mind that you either get one, the other, or both. Just keep to yourself and not argue which is better.

    Semantics aside, yes. It has a short-stroke piston.
     
  16. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    I'm sorry to get in on this so late:
    In the age of the internet it seems strange that long established, codified definitions of firearm mechanical systems are still being confused and misused, but they are. I see people and even ammo companies use the term 45 Long Colt even though that chambering has never existed. Even during my tenure in the US Army Ordnance Corps I would come across soldiers that swore that a 7.62 Russian round was interchangeable with a 7.62 NATO round.
    While stationed at the USOCAS Aberdeen Proving Grounds, MD one of my duties was to curate the M-16 archive. The archive had copies of every available civilian and military document associated with the M-16, M-16A1 even going back to the AR-10. All of this info is found on the net plus a huge amount more.
    As a side note the term "Mil Spec" refers to an item or system produced and tested to a set of production standards whose goal (for firearms) is to ensure a firearm will function for 90 days in a combat environment with proper maintenance. This ain't rocket surgery kids.
     
  17. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Spelled breech wrong.
     
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  18. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    Alright, I concede.

    I dont understand but I concede. :D
     
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  19. Boboclown

    Boboclown North Carolina Well-Known Member

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    That works too. Didn't know LMT has an AR that uses a gas piston.
     
  20. Boboclown

    Boboclown North Carolina Well-Known Member

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    Ah, that's probably why I never heard of it.