Eternal Vigilance - Price of Freedom

[Gunner3456]

That's true of anything, and pretty much the layperson's definition of what value is: people choose to accept it. Gold is only worth something because people choose to accept it as rare and valuable. Diamonds are rare because their supply is tightly controlled. Pre-lock Smiths are valuable becuase some people think the post-lock guns aren't as reliable. You can pick anything and some people will consider it valuable.

You are so right. If the SHTF, only useful things will be valuable. People won't trade a loaf of bread for diamonds or gold if everyone's hungry.

In that case the new gold will be ammo and guns and food and fuel and clean water and seeds and gardening tools and...

 

[2506]

When SHTF, the P-38 can opener will be the new T-bill.

 

[bugeye]

Man, any time the government manages money there is stupidity and waste. You should know that by now. That's either party, for at least the past 100 years.

Take just this one example. There's a huge utility-scale wind farm being built in Texas. It's funded largely by "stimulus money" and it's supposed to create jobs. Well, most of the jobs are foreign jobs.

So, when they state the cost per American job, it's not hard to see why each US job costs so much.

1.) The stands are being made in Canada, creating 500 Canadian jobs.
2.) The blades are being made in Europe even though we have two blade manufacturers in the US who are laying people off. This is creating 700 jobs in Europe.
3.) The heads (generators) are being made in China even though they could be made in the US, And CHINA is overseeing the construction on site in Texas! This is creating 2,500 jobs in China!

The number of US jobs created? 400.

So is it hard to see the waste as far as creating US jobs? Is it hard to see why the cost per US job is so high on this project? More than $1 bil is spent, and 400 jobs are created, and many of them are temporary until the project is completed!!

The sad thing is that wind power isn't economically viable. If it were, private capital would rush to it. It would be the new "gold rush." But it's a loser so the government (that's you and me) pays for it!!!!!!!!

Were you consulted before they spent your money and your grand kids' money on this debacle?

Here's just one link to get you started about this project. It's Senator Charles Schumer's web site. Understand that he's a liberal Democrat and chairman of the Senate Rules Committee and even HE'S upset about it. Link

You can't give money to the government and expect them to use it wisely. They will instead use it to buy votes in their own districts, no matter what party they are. I doubt if Schumer would be so upset if this was being done in his district.

Yeah, good points, the gov just gave a huge grant ot nuclear power too, and that isn't cost effective either, as a matter of fact I'm still waiting for a resonable estimate from that industry for stroring radioactive waste for a hundred thousand years.

I'm a huge fusion beliver, If I were king I'd be upsetting you spending for that, because that is the only real hope for peoplekind, but I'm a sci fi fan and want us off this one planet.

 

[CounterOfBeans]

You are so right. If the SHTF, only useful things will be valuable. People won't trade a loaf of bread for diamonds or gold if everyone's hungry.

In that case the new gold will be ammo and guns and food and fuel and clean water and seeds and gardening tools and...

You are so right Gunner3456 and 2506
It is true that when economic warfare succeeds in destroying the life force of a currency, in our case through Constitutionally unauthorized, debt-based spending, there is not much left for it to offer us as a medium of exchange, even though it indeed became the international standard for trade because of its intrinsically valuable metal base.

I share your pessimism about the relevance and pragmatism of traditional money in an economic implosion scenario, when its function and purpose of storing value has been sucked out of it through inflation.

But if/when the day comes that our once-vital, self-reliant, industrious people are forced by the needs of survival to reset their mode of exchange back to cumbersome barter trading, we cannot shrug aside the lesson that looks us square in the face.

In my opinion, whether slideglider's references to gold money are timely enough to matter for what our apparent near future holds for us, or not, the lesson we need to carry into the future and be able to competently pass on to our kids is how and why the role of precious metal, as money, is essential to our lives if we ever hope to experience a modern economy that is healthy, stable and sustainable.

Because it is economic stability that gives us the time and capacity to not only earn a living, but to be functional citizens who have the extra time and energy they need to stay informed, pursue education and be capable of intellectually defending their rights at the earliest signs of government encroachment.

I think slideglider was hoping that his reference to Creature from Jekyll Island would spark some healthy curiosity about the nature of our money and maybe an overdue, remedial, group conversation about it. There is a reason why the federal Constitution authorizes only the production/ circulation of money that is, or is based on, gold and silver bullion (Art. I, Sec. 8., Clause 5/ Art. 1, Sec. 10, Para. 1).

IMO, If we were not ever-increasingly making day to day decisions based on the myriad distractions caused by our economic woes or those of our loved ones, we would have more time/energy for family/community involvement/ and self improvement. This includes the ability to become more informed as a society on the entirety of both our State and federal Constitutions. We as "free people" wouldn't likely be sharing as many stories of dismay and disgust at the methodical slippage of our 2nd Amendment rights, while we slide further and further into economic paralysis.

I personally HIGHLY recommend another piece of writing; an article written in 1966 by our former illustrious fed chief Alan Greenspan, in the earlier stages of his government career. It was titled "Gold and Economic Freedom" and amazingly contradictory to the nature of his role as the fed chief, he beautifully explains how and why precious metals are essential to a healthy economy.

I feel we all need to know this stuff. It's fundamental to being able to know when the fox is in the hen house. And our public schools have proven for decades that public servants can't be trusted to provide The People with the core knowledge they need to effectively keep public servants in their proper roles. See ORS 336.057 and compare your education with what that law (on the books in Oregon since 1923) requires.

 

[Gunner3456]

You are so right Gunner3456 and 2506
It is true that when economic warfare succeeds in destroying the life force of a currency, in our case through Constitutionally unauthorized, debt-based spending, there is not much left for it to offer us as a medium of exchange, even though it indeed became the international standard for trade because of its intrinsically valuable metal base.

I share your pessimism about the relevance and pragmatism of traditional money in an economic implosion scenario, when its function and purpose of storing value has been sucked out of it through inflation.

But if/when the day comes that our once-vital, self-reliant, industrious people are forced by the needs of survival to reset their mode of exchange back to cumbersome barter trading, we cannot shrug aside the lesson that looks us square in the face.

In my opinion, whether slideglider's references to gold money are timely enough to matter for what our apparent near future holds for us, or not, the lesson we need to carry into the future and be able to competently pass on to our kids is how and why the role of precious metal, as money, is essential to our lives if we ever hope to experience a modern economy that is healthy, stable and sustainable.

Because it is economic stability that gives us the time and capacity to not only earn a living, but to be functional citizens who have the extra time and energy they need to stay informed, pursue education and be capable of intellectually defending their rights at the earliest signs of government encroachment.

I think slideglider was hoping that his reference to Creature from Jekyll Island would spark some healthy curiosity about the nature of our money and maybe an overdue, remedial, group conversation about it. There is a reason why the federal Constitution authorizes only the production/ circulation of money that is, or is based on, gold and silver bullion (Art. I, Sec. 8., Clause 5/ Art. 1, Sec. 10, Para. 1).

IMO, If we were not ever-increasingly making day to day decisions based on the myriad distractions caused by our economic woes or those of our loved ones, we would have more time/energy for family/community involvement/ and self improvement. This includes the ability to become more informed as a society on the entirety of both our State and federal Constitutions. We as "free people" wouldn't likely be sharing as many stories of dismay and disgust at the methodical slippage of our 2nd Amendment rights, while we slide further and further into economic paralysis.

I personally HIGHLY recommend another piece of writing; an article written in 1966 by our former illustrious fed chief Alan Greenspan, in the earlier stages of his government career. It was titled "Gold and Economic Freedom" and amazingly contradictory to the nature of his role as the fed chief, he beautifully explains how and why precious metals are essential to a healthy economy.

I feel we all need to know this stuff. It's fundamental to being able to know when the fox is in the hen house. And our public schools have proven for decades that public servants can't be trusted to provide The People with the core knowledge they need to effectively keep public servants in their proper roles. See ORS 336.057 and compare your education with what that law (on the books in Oregon since 1923) requires.

Good stuff and all true. Now if governments would just stay on the gold standard, we could all play along, but when they won't, we have to assume a defensive position. If the government isn't on the gold standard, then we can't be either because it isn't the medium of exchange!!

I'm not saying that we shouldn't own precious metals. We should. It's how we can keep our real wealth in our own possession and protect it, even against inflation.

But, it will be worthless for many everyday purchases in the first months or maybe years of a true apocalyptic meltdown when basic survival is the mode. In that mode, things which people need for survival will have the value.

Today I could buy either one ounce of gold or eight new Marlin 60 .22lr rifles with a brick of ammo for each for the same dollar amount. Which would I be most likely to find valuable for barter in the first months after a crash? Or, I could just spend the $1,100 on common calibers of ammo and the question is the same.

Imho gold is for storing real and extra wealth beyond what's needed for survival. Silver is for everyday purchases because of the smaller denominations. But first, we have to survive so survival items will have the most value first if the SHTF.

Just basic medical items like aspirin and alcohol and hydrogen peroxide and bandages etc. etc. will have real value. So will household bleach for chlorinating water. These are all items which are dirt cheap today but as good as gold if the SHTF.

What will my well be worth, considering that the water is pure, cold and plentiful, when due to terrain I can siphon from it and establish a perpetual spigot of power free, cold, and unlimited clean, clear, safe water? I can in fact do that - no "pipe" dream here, lol, I'm all set up to do it.

$.02

 

[slideglider]

Gold or precious metals are not an end all fix. First you have to understand what money is and the difference between money and currency. Anything can be money, as long as it is accepted by all parties involved in a transaction. WITHOUT COERCION. That's important. Also it has have a few qualities to fulfil the characteristics of money:
1) easily divisible
2)easily transportable
3)can't be, or easily be, counterfeited
4)can be certified of weight and measure
5)will not spoil or degrade over time
6)must be somewhat rare, but not so rare that it is hard to come by for suiting it's purpose (ties into counterfeiting)
7)must be universally accepted

It just so happens, gold fits those characteristics better than anything on the planet, and has for all of recorded history since it's discovery.

The trouble is, at this point today, gold is manipulated like any other item. To get physical bullion you have to pay a premium. That is, you pay spot plus a mark up from the person selling it to you. When you sell, you will get around spot or less. If you go auction with it, you pay fees, so it's a wash. The spot price(index) is run by Wall Street. You pay for gold in dollars. You sell it for dollars. Why, because NO ONE ACCEPTS IT. That is the biggest hindrance. If gold could be traded for direct goods to a substantial portion of our society, the margin would vanish, and it would become money. As of right now, it isn't.

What you are actually seeing when you look at the charts on a place like KITCO.COM, is not the value of gold. What you are seeing is the value of the dollar in relation to gold. One ounce of gold will always be one ounce of gold. But one thousand dollars will not always be one ounce of gold. Gold is a constant. It has the same purchasing power today as it did in the times of Rome.

Money is a store of your production or service in the division of labor, in which you divide and trade that money for finished goods and services. It is a measurement of your contribution to the division of labor. If someone else can control it's value at will, they can control you at will. That's why there should never be one entity in control of money. It's also why monies should be allowed to compete against each other so the participants involved can determine a mutually accepted value, in a free market, set up in contract between the parties involved.

 

[nixuser]

excellent post Gunner3456 i think you hit the nail right on the head more weapons and ammo and basic goods for trade and lucky you having water without having to pump it !!
<broken link removed>

 

[nixuser]

<broken link removed>

 

[nixuser]

just look up bosnian in the search bar on survivalblog.com

 

[CounterOfBeans]

Good stuff and all true. Now if governments would just stay on the gold standard, we could all play along, but when they won't, we have to assume a defensive position. If the government isn't on the gold standard, then we can't be either because it isn't the medium of exchange!!

I'm not saying that we shouldn't own precious metals. We should. It's how we can keep our real wealth in our own possession and protect it, even against inflation.

But, it will be worthless for many everyday purchases in the first months or maybe years of a true apocalyptic meltdown when basic survival is the mode. In that mode, things which people need for survival will have the value.

Today I could buy either one ounce of gold or eight new Marlin 60 .22lr rifles with a brick of ammo for each for the same dollar amount. Which would I be most likely to find valuable for barter in the first months after a crash? Or, I could just spend the $1,100 on common calibers of ammo and the question is the same.

Imho gold is for storing real and extra wealth beyond what's needed for survival. Silver is for everyday purchases because of the smaller denominations. But first, we have to survive so survival items will have the most value first if the SHTF.

Just basic medical items like aspirin and alcohol and hydrogen peroxide and bandages etc. etc. will have real value. So will household bleach for chlorinating water. These are all items which are dirt cheap today but as good as gold if the SHTF.

What will my well be worth, considering that the water is pure, cold and plentiful, when due to terrain I can siphon from it and establish a perpetual spigot of power free, cold, and unlimited clean, clear, safe water? I can in fact do that - no "pipe" dream here, lol, I'm all set up to do it.

$.02

Yep, I fully agree. What you're saying is common sense prudence given the state of things. I just wanted to make sure that the value and merit of retaining the knowledge and heritage of real money got its chance to be heard and considered, just so we don't forget and so we remember to school future generations who don't have the benefit of learning about it in school.

 

[mudnducs]

You are so right Gunner3456 and 2506
It is true that when economic warfare succeeds in destroying the life force of a currency, in our case through Constitutionally unauthorized, debt-based spending, there is not much left for it to offer us as a medium of exchange, even though it indeed became the international standard for trade because of its intrinsically valuable metal base.

I share your pessimism about the relevance and pragmatism of traditional money in an economic implosion scenario, when its function and purpose of storing value has been sucked out of it through inflation.

But if/when the day comes that our once-vital, self-reliant, industrious people are forced by the needs of survival to reset their mode of exchange back to cumbersome barter trading, we cannot shrug aside the lesson that looks us square in the face.

In my opinion, whether slideglider's references to gold money are timely enough to matter for what our apparent near future holds for us, or not, the lesson we need to carry into the future and be able to competently pass on to our kids is how and why the role of precious metal, as money, is essential to our lives if we ever hope to experience a modern economy that is healthy, stable and sustainable.

Because it is economic stability that gives us the time and capacity to not only earn a living, but to be functional citizens who have the extra time and energy they need to stay informed, pursue education and be capable of intellectually defending their rights at the earliest signs of government encroachment.

I think slideglider was hoping that his reference to Creature from Jekyll Island would spark some healthy curiosity about the nature of our money and maybe an overdue, remedial, group conversation about it. There is a reason why the federal Constitution authorizes only the production/ circulation of money that is, or is based on, gold and silver bullion (Art. I, Sec. 8., Clause 5/ Art. 1, Sec. 10, Para. 1).

IMO, If we were not ever-increasingly making day to day decisions based on the myriad distractions caused by our economic woes or those of our loved ones, we would have more time/energy for family/community involvement/ and self improvement. This includes the ability to become more informed as a society on the entirety of both our State and federal Constitutions. We as "free people" wouldn't likely be sharing as many stories of dismay and disgust at the methodical slippage of our 2nd Amendment rights, while we slide further and further into economic paralysis.

I personally HIGHLY recommend another piece of writing; an article written in 1966 by our former illustrious fed chief Alan Greenspan, in the earlier stages of his government career. It was titled "Gold and Economic Freedom" and amazingly contradictory to the nature of his role as the fed chief, he beautifully explains how and why precious metals are essential to a healthy economy.
I feel we all need to know this stuff. It's fundamental to being able to know when the fox is in the hen house. And our public schools have proven for decades that public servants can't be trusted to provide The People with the core knowledge they need to effectively keep public servants in their proper roles. See ORS 336.057 and compare your education with what that law (on the books in Oregon since 1923) requires.

Thanks for the heads up...interesting article.