Escape from Detroit?

[Hook686]

Where are America's factories ? Where is the new industry upon which new cities can be built ?

 

[Hook686]

Why is detroit such a sees pool?? Well where did all th emoney go??

hmmmm where have you been. From the 60's I recall most Americans touting, and buying foreign automobiles rather than Detroit made. Everyone that bought one can look no further than themselves. Also Reganomics and the 'Market Driven' economic boys pretty much a lot of people on buying on credit, privatization and outsourcing. We as a nation reap what we sow. The Chinese have our factories now and are rapidly buying up the resources to feed them. I fear Detroit is just the tip of the iceberg. Have you ridden Amtrak from Boston to Washington D.C. ? Mile after mile of boarded up, abandoned factories. The Merrimack River valley ... the same. I thinki the 'Rust Belt' stretches from Boston to L.A. now.

 

[knuckle Head]

hmmmm where have you been. From the 60's I recall most Americans touting, and buying foreign automobiles rather than Detroit made. Everyone that bought one can look no further than themselves. Also Reganomics and the 'Market Driven' economic boys pretty much a lot of people on buying on credit, privatization and outsourcing. We as a nation reap what we sow. The Chinese have our factories now and are rapidly buying up the resources to feed them. I fear Detroit is just the tip of the iceberg. Have you ridden Amtrak from Boston to Washington D.C. ? Mile after mile of boarded up, abandoned factories. The Merrimack River valley ... the same. I thinki the 'Rust Belt' stretches from Boston to L.A. now.

Well seeing as how I grew up there and lived a good part of my life there and worked in the heavy equipment industry I can tell you I saw it and what I was told.

1, a buddy asked his dad who was an engineer at ford why they only the cars last 2-3 years, answer because they need the turnover to keep the economy going

2, I was part of meeting wher management or purchasing show cost reductions down suppliers throats, as an engineer said one day, no matter what you do to a widget it still cost a minimum of $.05 cents to make, if they are forced to sell to us for $.05 or less which they atuo companies were doing to keep their bonuses high and stock holders happy, they drove the american suppliers out of twon, I know a few who had to close up shop, one did closed while profits and business was great, why Gm, Ford and Chrysler were trying to force him to buy business, he said no he sold and took the profits and closed up while the getting was good.

GM, ford and chrysler kept squeezing the suppliers and squeezing them for every penny they could as time went on they forced to close, these companies also that they could import the same parts from overseas at 1/2 the price, there by shutting down suppliers in the U.S., now the people that worked at these suppliers now were forced to take jobs that paid much less and less in benefits, they could not afford a GM, FORD or CHRYSLER, so they bought the cheaper more reliable.

All they did was thing the clowns at the big three did, so before you you go preaching your twisted version of the truth, go do it somewhere where someone has not lived throw the trash you are trying to hand out.

The big corporations have driven the american consumer through necessity to do the exact same thing that the exceutives who run these major corporations were doing, looking out for number one.

I am all for free enterprise, my days of loyalties to american companies (which the parts are more 70% from overseas and were more than 45% in 1989) were thrown out the window when i got my last pink slip from an auto supplier because profits were not what they had predicted to walstreet.

Remember I lived was involved in many deals that turned my stomach that i tried to keep from happening but being low on the totem pole I was told to shutup and lost my job a couple of times for reading thw writing on the wall and where things would be today. ANd they are right where I and other predicted.

 

[Hook686]

All they did was thing the clowns at the big three did, so before you you go preaching your twisted version of the truth, go do it somewhere where someone has not lived throw the trash you are trying to hand out.

My my ... something must have touched a nerve. You read one American veteran's viewpoint and become negative, insulting and derrogative. Amazing. Might be one of the characteristics that has evolved in America that lends a hand on its current downward spiral. It might be. I might have missed something 60 years ago, but it certainly seems like we, as a people, spend more energy bashing each other these days than actually working.

In 1972 I was in an Industrial Engineering class. The professor indicated he had worked for GM in the 1960's. His comment was that Japan could produce a car $800 cheaper that the U.S. My 1969 Pontiac was $3000 new off the showroom floor. $800 is a lot of money when looking at a $3000 product. Americans were buying the cheap import cars, much like they are buying the cheaper Chinese goods today. I personally think the Detroit auto makers were doing everything they could to cut into that $800 disparity. The professor indicated one thing that was done was to speed up the assembly line. The down side was that each worker had less time to get his/her part correctly installed as the line kept moving. It was a no win situation. Faster line ment more mistakes and it would cost more to correct more mistakes than had the line not been speeded up. A real Catch-22.

Knuckle Head I think I can understand some of where you are coming from. I was a 'Troop' in the military in the 60's I did not always think the people controlling the show always knew what they were doing. Just remember, the poop rolls down hill and to get ahead one needs to learn to say, "Yes sir, I'll get right on it." I learned that is how one got their stripes and kept them. I did not like that game and got out, went to school and became an engineer involved in building dams, hospitals, even the space shuttle recovery faciity at Edwards AFB. I am sure you have your opinion on government contracts and $750 screw drivers. I recall once when a contractor was dragging his feet getting a huge pair of water pumps. The contracting officer was going to hold the contactor to the letter of the contract and begin charging the contrator a $1500 per day penalty for not having the pumps installedon time. The contractyor said, 'Okay'. A week later the general called the contracting officer and told him that in July he would have 15,000 troops in the desert and he did not care about the contract problems, he wanted water on the site when his troops arrived. So, instead of collecting $1500 a day from the contractor, we paid the contractor another $150,000 to provide the pumps on time, something he was already under contract to do.

I'm sure you have your opinion on this, as it might be similar to what went on in Detroit back in the 60's and 70's. Remember, it rolls downhill. So lighten up if you can and enjoy other peoples viewpoints, even if they are not as smart and well informed as you. They are limited by their own personal experiences, and these will definately be different from yours.

 

[Steve06]

You guys forgot to mention the contribution of the Unions to this mess.

 

[Stomper]

We are. Ever spent any time in Europe?

Yes we are STILL better than the eurotrash attitude, but we as a society are over the summit of exellence and going down the slope into the valley of mediocrity, and "settling" for a "new normal" that is BY FAR lower on the bar of comparison to what we once were, and what we could still do... if enough good citizens put their shoulders to it... and yes, I pulled a two year two tour bodyguarding the USAREUR/7th Army CINC, Gen. Glenn Otis, based out of Heidelberg Germany... Hated almost every second being over there, and as far as I was concerned if the arrogant bastiges couldn't fend off the Soviets on their own with all the resources and skills they had at their disposal, then to H with them.

I'm not sure we, as a species, are even that good. We seem to revert to more animalistic behavior every day.

Its always a minority (at all levels) that keeps chipping away at the majority who spend their time working hard to make a living, take care of their own and tow the line. Sadly , sometimes you have to drop the plowshare, pick up the sword (figuratively and literally) and cull the cancer(s) at all levels.

 

[knuckle Head]

You did strike a nerve, because the Big Three make crap.

My intentions were not to hurt you or anyone intentionally, but Gods sake please quite repeating what you hear others say or from the media, OK??

Before you go around blaming people, please do your research I am 51 and never owned a foreign car, I had honda accord company car second driver for 1.5 years, from 2001 -2002 that had 200,000 miles when I got it and I ran it to 315,000 and no problems, I bought a new GM truck in 2009 and nothing but problems and GM can't seem to fix the problems or say it is normal, I bought my last big three vehicle. I have had them all and none of them last like the honda's or toyota's others in my family who live away from detroit buy. WHile they put 300,000 miles on theirs and never a problem I watch my dad who retired from GM continue to buy GM and have, water pumps, transmission seals, major brake over hauls at 80,000 and now it just over a 100,000 miles.

My 1998 had transaxle problems where when sitting on an incline and I would go to take off fast it wjerk bad, gm said it was normal, the plastic intake manifold got and cracked at 120,000 miles, come to find out it was a known problem and GM went back to aluminum intake manifolds but what did they do for the customers. Nothing just well I will sell you a new one, I can tell stories about ford and chrysler too.

The big three do not care about the customers, all they care about is their own bonuses next quarter and how they take home each pay day.

The people who buy foreign products are not to blame, the people who here decide to make them cheaper and cheaper and screw the consumer and the blame for their demise, one thing that will always be true a person will pay a little more for something that is reliable and long lasting and they feel like they were treated decently.

The big once again only care about sales and profits, they do not care anything else, I know people there that complain about the lack of power in their little 4 banger ford and what a problem child it is and then when i say I am going to buy honda this summer they start telling me about how the focus is cheaper in price, I just off the phone because they are just trying to keep their own pay check rolling in, they do not care about me getting the best deal, quality, durability and long term satisfaction.

That is the mentality that is bred in the big three industry, screw your buddy if need be to care of number one.