Escalation to use of force.

[Longwalkhome]

And I'll put money on it that he goes to jail. But he's in Texas so I may be wrong. Either way I respect what the jury decides. And you may be right. There may be other facts that are unknown at this time. I am simply judging the scenario by what I personally witnessed.

We all witnessed the death of George Floyd and were told it was the knee on him that killed him. Yet there was plenty of evidence he died of an overdose and the cops were holding him down to keep him secure. Yep they the cop was declared guilty but I have doubt after seeing the evidence presented.

I can't say the home owner is guilty of murder but he did kill the big guy. Hopefully a jury reaches a just decision.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Did or did not the molester have a gun in his right hand? Pictures looked like he did.

That was the DA.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Why are you so sure? No charges have been filed.

Maybe a grand jury will decide.

 

[po18guy]

Hate to say it, but thank goodness both were white.

 

[Cavedweller]

Did or did not the molester have a gun in his right hand? Pictures looked like he did.

I think by "molester" he was referring to Rosenbaum, who was unarmed when shot. The guy with the gun was Gross-somethingorother, now known as "lefty". His criminal record was not related to child molestation.

Still, the Rosenbaum situation is different, as someone else had fired a gunshot when Kyle's back was turned, so he didn't know where it was coming from, and Rosenbaum threw something at him and then lunged for his gun. So he had more reason to fear for his life at that point.

 

[po18guy]

We all witnessed the death of George Floyd and were told it was the knee on him that killed him. Yet there was plenty of evidence he died of an overdose and the cops were holding him down to keep him secure. Yep they the cop was declared guilty but I have doubt after seeing the evidence presented.

I can't say the home owner is guilty of murder but he did kill the big guy. Hopefully a jury reaches a just decision.

Former officer Chauvin can and is appealing the conviction. It was a mess and was not sound police procedure. If the truth was not arrived it, it will out during the appeal.

 

[Jay Walk]

Who was unarmed? You mean the child molester who had told Rittenhouse that he was going to kill him and then tried to take his rifle…. With the intent of killing him. That doesn't compare to this from what I can see.

Or the skateboard or the 9mm, both are deadly weapons IMO.

 

[Member 53328]

We all witnessed the death of George Floyd and were told it was the knee on him that killed him. Yet there was plenty of evidence he died of an overdose and the cops were holding him down to keep him secure. Yep they the cop was declared guilty but I have doubt after seeing the evidence presented.

I can't say the home owner is guilty of murder but he did kill the big guy. Hopefully a jury reaches a just decision.

Agreed. I don't agree with the charges he got. I also don't think he should have gone free of any charges. Unfortunately his fate was sentenced the minute that video went out. The facts no longer mattered. In fact I was pretty surprised and happy when KR was acquitted. I thought he was going to get railroaded as well. Luckily the jury that was deciding his case had more of a backbone and was not swayed by the threats and media like the Floyd case was.

 

[Member 53328]

Or the skateboard or the 9mm, both are deadly weapons IMO.

Oh I believe two were armed and one was shot in the process of trying to arm himself by attempting to steal the rifle from KR. I have no issue with their dirt naps.

 

[RVTECH]

Did the smaller man buy a gun in fear of the bigger man?

Was the bigger man aggressive before this day and make threats.

Was the smaller man honestly in fear for his life?

SO - do YOU have personal experience with child custody ? such as with your own?

I am going to take a guess and say no based on your above questions.

ANY boyfriend of a divorced mother of a child is stark raving nuts if he in ANY way gets involved between the father and the mother and will get little sympathy in court. Especially when he shot a father who was expressing what could be considered a 'common' emotion of a father in a child custody situation - especially when a 'boyfriend' sticks his nose in it. Boyfriends of a mother are the lowest common denominator and if they have chit for brains know to stay out of a domestic issue.

I suspect 'smaller man' has no personal experience with child custody issues either or he would have known better and 'backed off'.

When a man says, "get off of my property," take it seriously.

I'll agree with this part unequivocally. Father should have left no doubt - but he was not a threat to the homeowner/renter or whoever he was. 'Smaller man' should have BACKED OFF unless/until 'bigger guy' actually presented a threat.

 

[Jay Walk]

Dudes life was not threatened, he then went and got a rifle, returned outside and started blasting.

 

[sobo]

I notice a few things with this one...

1. After chest-butting match, Dead Guy does not back down when the gun is discharged at his feet (I didn't see where Dead Guy's foot got hit, as someone else upthread said). If you don't get the hell off of someone's porch after they shoot a gun at your feet, then you qualify as a pretty good-sized moron. Dead Guy clearly met this criterion.
2. Dead Guy then threw the BF off his porch. To say that Dead Guy never touched the BF is woefully inaccurate. The UK Daily Mail got that wrong when it states that the BF "jumped (or sprang) off his porch". Anyone who watches the video (particularly the inside-the-home angle) can see that Dead Guy threw the BF off his own porch, and then proceeded to head for the front door, ostensibly to enter the home in which Dead Guy does not reside.
3. Texas is a Castle Doctrine state. Dead Guy put himself between the homeowner/BF and his abode and place of employment (BF works from home and has employees in the house - that's who took the video from inside the home). Employees could claim that BF did not provide a safe work environment.
4. Not a lot of calamity in evidence after Dead Guy officially becomes Dead Guy. Everyone, from the BF to Dead Guy's brand new widow, doesn't seem to be too excited about Teal Shirt Guy becoming Dead Guy and taking the long dirt nap.

I'm sure I'll come up with more after I watch the vids a few more times and read some more about this, but there sure did seem to be a lot of stoopit on display here.

On another note, can we get @Moderators to merge this thread with the other Stupid Texas Custody Shooting thread so I don't have to go back and forth between two (or perhaps even more) threads?

 

[sobo]

Did or did not the molester have a gun in his right hand? Pictures looked like he did.

You are confused. The child molester (Joseph Rosenbaum) did not have any weapon in his hands when he attacked Kyle Rittenhouse and got killed.
Gaige Grosskreutz had a pistol in his hand when he was shot and wounded by Rittenhouse. Grosskreutz has never been charged, let alone convicted, of child molestation. He has another, albeit very different, set of crimes to his credit. He has also never, to my knowledge, been charged in connection with being a felon in possession of a firearm. Curious...

ETA: Never mind. I see now where someone else corrected the record for me while I was typing the above. However, since I spent a few minutes typing it, I'ma gonna just leave it here.

 

[Alexx1401]

We all witnessed the death of George Floyd and were told it was the knee on him that killed him. Yet there was plenty of evidence he died of an overdose and the cops were holding him down to keep him secure. Yep they the cop was declared guilty but I have doubt after seeing the evidence presented.

I can't say the home owner is guilty of murder but he did kill the big guy. Hopefully a jury reaches a just decision.

Sadly the Floyd death was a HUGE cluster F. From what I have read this is how they were trained to hold someone. If so it was PISS poor training. Yes it does look like he was doper scum and died because of his own choices. BUT, after they had him cuffed and on the ground there was no need to keep him in that position for that long. LONG before this happened we were being trained to NEVER hold someone down like that especially if we suspected they were on drugs. If he was sat up and leaned against the vehicle he was no on shape to fight them while cuffed. A LOT of grief would have been avoided.

 

[RVTECH]

If you don't get the hell off of someone's porch after they shoot a gun at your feet, then you qualify as a pretty good-sized moron.

If you have no personal experience with the emotions of a father in a child custody issue please do NOT characterize him as a 'moron'.

 

[Heyjoe]

Didn't click and skipped most of the comments but escape, avoidance and de-escalation should be the top priority for civilian defenders at all times.

Discretion is the better part of valor.

 

[sobo]

If you have no personal experience with the emotions of a father in a child custody issue please do NOT characterize him as a 'moron'.

I have plenty of personal experience with the emotions of a father in a child custody issue, so I believe I have the cred to claim that this guy was a moron.

I have been in the position of Dead Guy several times, when my ex refused to produce our two kids at the appointed time on numerous occasions. I called law enforcement of all occasions, and they did nothing, every time. The final straw was when I had plane tickets to take the kids to the East Coast to visit their grandparents (my mom and dad) during my time with them from Christmas to New Years, which the ex had previously agreed to "allow" (even though I had no legal requirement to inform her I was taking the kids out of state, but I felt as a parent I should inform her of my plans). Yet again, she failed to bring the kids to me as prescribed in the Parenting Plan. I had to cancel the plane tickets (which I was never able to use nor get a refund) and then travel from Eastern WA to the Kitsap Peninsula on Christmas Day to retrieve my kids for my appointed time with them, and she STILL refused to produce the kids. Again, LEO did nothing on my behalf. So I filed a Contempt of Court case against her... I'll stop there since eventually, things changed and eventually things settled down.

But yes, I certainly do have personal experience with the emotions of a father in a child custody issue. Yes, I most certainly do...

 

[Koda]

not enough info to judge this, but I have 2 questions... does the states even have a written castle law and does it allow for curtalage (outside the home walls) and was the father allowed to be there by arraingement with his ex to pick up his kid at that time?

 

[RVTECH]

I have plenty of personal experience with the emotions of a father in a child custody issue, so I believe I have the cred to claim that this guy was a moron.

Well, maybe you had a 'halo' above your head during whatever 'experiences' you had with ''child custody' but this father didn't and definitely made a bad decision.

I certainly understand, and no doubt 'acquiesce' with his emotions but they do NOT qualify him as a 'moron'.

 

[Alexx1401]

I have plenty of personal experience with the emotions of a father in a child custody issue, so I believe I have the cred to claim that this guy was a moron.

He certainly sadly ended his life due entirely over not being able to control himself. When I have to deal with parents acting like this in front of their kids all I can think is what chance do those kids have?
One memory burned into my brain when I was pre school age. Neighbor's dog had me cornered in my own yard. Dad came up behind the dog and put his foot right in dogs balls. Reaction was as you can picture if you are a dude. Dog hopped home screaming and collapsed in his yard. Owner cam BOILING out of his home and came after my Dad. Dad stood calm as owner screamed. Dad told him your dog had my son corned. Dog owner screamed its just his nature. Dad calmly said its my nature to kick him in the nuts every time I see him come after my son. Dads calm speak seems to catch screaming owner off guard and I think in the back of his mind he was wondering about the choice he had just made. He walked away saying he was going to call Police. My Dad said great idea and went back in the house. Dog NEVER came in my yard again BTW Its one of very few memories I have from that young age.