Engraving requirements under new brace rule

wired · Jan 23, 2023

holinshed said:
If you are referring to a complete firearm that you purchased, the ATF FAQ says specifically that you can adopt the original markings. (Meaning you are not required to engrave it with your personal information.)

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download

27. ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED, AM I REQUIRED TO MARK THE FIREARM SINCE I MANUFACTURED
A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR)?

• If the SBR equipped with a "stabilizing brace" is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance
period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker's marking
exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the
firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92
& 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1.

That isn't to say you won't find something that says the exact opposite somewhere else on the ATF site like @wired is linking to, but the above is what the FAQ on the ATF site says.

My link is the actual form 1 instructions. PMF is an 80% build in ATF jargon. They may be referring to self installed braces though in which case their instructions and FAQ are hot garbage.

1BoredGuy · Jan 25, 2023

If you, the maker, moves to a different city then do you need to change the engraving to show the new city?
Or not a huge deal.

Member 34319 · Jan 25, 2023

Damn, now I have to get them engraved?

@wired you lied to me

Just kidding. You are the only one trying to make sense of this for all of us!

I know at least one of them is getting the Dremel special. I ain't paying to get them engraved that's for sure. Free is free! (Minus being on a list, cue someone saying it ain't free)

As for the rest of the threads direction.

I'll ask you this, do you think the ATF shows up at the door of your SO the moment you die? They have no freaking clue you are dead. Usually they are so happy that the SO or whoever gets the NFA items files a form 5 so they know where the stuff went. I bet there are registered machine guns out there in the hands of some old lady or relative of the dead person, and the ATF ain't got a clue. With the surge of popularity, I can only imagine in 20 years time how many registered firearms/suppressors go into the unknown.

ilikegunspdx · Jan 25, 2023

Reno said:
Damn, now I have to get them engraved?

@wired you lied to me

Just kidding. You are the only one trying to make sense of this for all of us!

I know at least one of them is getting the Dremel special. I ain't paying to get them engraved that's for sure. Free is free! (Minus being on a list, cue someone saying it ain't free)

As for the rest of the threads direction.

I'll ask you this, do you think the ATF shows up at the door of your SO the moment you die? They have no freaking clue you are dead. Usually they are so happy that the SO or whoever gets the NFA items files a form 5 so they know where the stuff went. I bet there are registered machine guns out there in the hands of some old lady or relative of the dead person, and the ATF ain't got a clue. With the surge of popularity, I can only imagine in 20 years time how many registered firearms/suppressors go into the unknown.

As someone pointed out above, atf faq page specifically says you don't need to engrave it. I interpret "personally made firearm" to be an 80% or other with no original markings.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download

Member 34319 · Jan 25, 2023

ilikegunspdx said:
As someone pointed out above, atf faq page specifically says you don't need to engrave it. I interpret "personally made firearm" to be an 80% or other with no original markings.

View attachment 1352403

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download

Well shat!

Maybe I'll engrave "AFT Approved " on them just to be on the safe side.

SCARed · Jan 25, 2023

Dear god... YOU NEED TO ENGRAVE THE DAMN SBR. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO ADOPT THE MARKINGS, MEANING THE DAMN SERIAL NUMBER AND MANUFACTURES NAME. YOUR NAME, CITY AND STATE, MUST BE ENGRAVED.

FFS, all these idiots new to the NFA want to argue with those the have BTDT.

ilikegunspdx · Jan 25, 2023

SCARed said:
Dear god... YOU NEED TO ENGRAVE THE DAMN SBR. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO ADOPT THE MARKINGS, MEANING THE DAMN SERIAL NUMBER AND MANUFACTURES NAME. YOUR NAME, CITY AND STATE, MUST BE ENGRAVED.

FFS, all these idiots new to the NFA want to argue with those the have BTDT.

Just because you have done sbrs in the past doesn't mean you are an expert on this new rule which specifically states in several places that engraving is not required (except for 80%) and everyone else, like you said, are idiots. There are no been-there-done-that's for this rule that hasn't even been published yet, sorry.

In addition to where it is mentioned in the final rule, it is also stated in the FAQ page. The ATF also went to lengths in the rule to say that they specifically excluded the cost of engraving in their cost analysis BECAUSE ONLY The privately made firearms (80% that have no markings) would need to be engraved.

Why would the ATF do their costs analysis specifically leaving out the engraving costs and saying they don't expect any to be engraved except for the 80% ones if everyone has to do the engraving? That makes no sense.

The ONLY place atf has conflicting info re engraving for this rule is the efile instructions. We already know the computer people who did those instructions have screwed up other things like the date firearm must be owned by a trust. They say jan 13, but the rule says date published in the federal register. So it looks like the computer people haven't updated the instructions yet for the new rule.

From the rule where they said engraving is not needed:

Definition of privately made firearm (which does need engraving because they have none):

From the FAQ where they say engraving is not needed:

Other similar from the rule:

Explorer1 · Jan 25, 2023

lwarner said:
the WA gun law video made it seem as though there was no option for trust to own non NFA item but that doesn't seem right? I'm sure I'm ignorant here so perhaps someone better informed can clear up any confusion.

NFA Gun Trust Lawyer Blog

Published by Florida Gun Trust Attorneys — Law Office of David M. Goldman PLLC

www.guntrustlawyer.com

SCARed · Jan 25, 2023

ilikegunspdx said:
Just because you have done sbrs in the past doesn't mean you are an expert on this new rule which specifically states in several places that engraving is not required (except for 80%) and everyone else, like you said, are idiots. There are no been-there-done-that's for this rule that hasn't even been published yet, sorry.

In addition to where it is mentioned in the final rule, it is also stated in the FAQ page. The ATF also went to lengths in the rule to say that they specifically excluded the cost of engraving in their cost analysis BECAUSE ONLY The privately made firearms (80% that have no markings) would need to be engraved.

Why would the ATF do their costs analysis specifically leaving out the engraving costs and saying they don't expect any to be engraved except for the 80% ones if everyone has to do the engraving? That makes no sense.

The ONLY place atf has conflicting info re engraving for this rule is the efile instructions. We already know the computer people who did those instructions have screwed up other things like the date firearm must be owned by a trust. They say jan 13, but the rule says date published in the federal register. So it looks like the computer people haven't updated the instructions yet for the new rule.

From the rule where they said engraving is not needed:

View attachment 1352751
Definition of privately made firearm (which does need engraving because they have none):
View attachment 1352757
From the FAQ where they say engraving is not needed:
View attachment 1352755
Other similar from the rule:
View attachment 1352767

Yep, apparently reading comprehension has failed you.

They say explicitly that they are not accounting for the cost of engraving or disassembly or re assembly. Period. Full stop. You made up the part in you head that it's because of some reason. Simply, they are not factoring in the associated costs.
You posted the same thing twice.
The language of using existing markings is a bastardized version of what they've been using for years. So yes, those of us that have BTDT know all too well what it says and means.

Member 53328 · Jan 25, 2023

SCARed said:
Yep, apparently reading comprehension has failed you.

They say explicitly that they are not accounting for the cost of engraving or disassembly or re assembly. Period. Full stop. You made up the part in you head that it's because of some reason. Simply, they are not factoring in the associated costs.
You posted the same thing twice.
The language of using existing markings is a bastardized version of what they've been using for years. So yes, those of us that have BTDT know all too well what it says and means.

I need to pick up another lower just so I can be apart of the party and get a free tax stamp. I'll just throw one of my already tax stamped SBR uppers on it and then build it later on down the road.

I wanna be apart and hang out! I promise I'll just sit in the corner. I won't complain or anything. Haha.

wired · Jan 25, 2023

ilikegunspdx said:
Just because you have done sbrs in the past doesn't mean you are an expert on this new rule which specifically states in several places that engraving is not required (except for 80%) and everyone else, like you said, are idiots. There are no been-there-done-that's for this rule that hasn't even been published yet, sorry.

In addition to where it is mentioned in the final rule, it is also stated in the FAQ page. The ATF also went to lengths in the rule to say that they specifically excluded the cost of engraving in their cost analysis BECAUSE ONLY The privately made firearms (80% that have no markings) would need to be engraved.

Why would the ATF do their costs analysis specifically leaving out the engraving costs and saying they don't expect any to be engraved except for the 80% ones if everyone has to do the engraving? That makes no sense.

The ONLY place atf has conflicting info re engraving for this rule is the efile instructions. We already know the computer people who did those instructions have screwed up other things like the date firearm must be owned by a trust. They say jan 13, but the rule says date published in the federal register. So it looks like the computer people haven't updated the instructions yet for the new rule.

From the rule where they said engraving is not needed:

View attachment 1352751
Definition of privately made firearm (which does need engraving because they have none):
View attachment 1352757
From the FAQ where they say engraving is not needed:
View attachment 1352755
Other similar from the rule:
View attachment 1352767

They didn't say they didn't expect engraving costs. They said they didn't factor them in.

ilikegunspdx · Jan 25, 2023

wired said:
They didn't say they didn't expect engraving costs. They said they didn't factor them in.

They didn't factor them in becuase they consider them already marked (as it says in the final rule). For the ones that are not adequately marked, privately made firearms, they say the cost to engrave it is $35-60.

wired · Jan 25, 2023

ilikegunspdx said:
They didn't factor them in becuase they consider them already marked (as it says in the final rule). For the ones that are not adequately marked, privately made firearms, they say the cost to engrave it is $35-60.

Thats what you are reading into it. It doesn't say that.