Engraving requirements under new brace rule

[CountryGent]

I assume the requirement for engraving MY name, my city and state are if I make the firearm.

As an individual, not a trust, yes. The state may be abbreviated to standard USPS convention.

 

[Mbeef61]

As an individual, not a trust, yes. The state may be abbreviated to standard USPS convention.

Yeah no trust involved. Just me.

Says Sig Sauer inc. newington NH USA.

I should be good then

 

[Yarome]

On the engraving thing…

My sig 400 tread pistol already has maker, city and state.

I assume the requirement for engraving MY name, my city and state are if I make the firearm.

Am I correct in that since mine already had a manufacturer, city and state that I do not need to engrave anything else?

Not to submit an application it's not. The mfg's markings are sufficient for the SBR application process.

 

[wired]

Good gad. Obviously not since it's an NFA item and ownership of an NFA may be transerred to a trust by other means.

You seriously can't read I said "non-nfa" and really don't understand that a 4473 is the document/process/mechanism used to transfer ownership of a non-nfa firearm? Completely unrelated to NFA firearms???

Now it's just getting stoopid.

I can buy all the firearms I feel like buying from dealers on a 4473. I can buy all the firearms I want to without a 4473 from private sellers. I can transfer all of those firearms to a trust which will then own said firarms with myself as trustee just the same as the NFA firearms that are in the same trust. The RP docs and BGC I fill out for an NFA transfer aren't done on the trust. Theyre done on me.

 

[wired]

On the engraving thing…

My sig 400 tread pistol already has maker, city and state.

I assume the requirement for engraving MY name, my city and state are if I make the firearm.

Am I correct in that since mine already had a manufacturer, city and state that I do not need to engrave anything else?

Yes, Your name, city and state must be engraved on the receiver prior to or at the time the stamp is approved. State may be abbreviated.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

As an individual, not a trust, yes. The state may be abbreviated to standard USPS convention.

So for the new brace rule, we don't have to engrave anything unless a gun trust owns the gun?

 

[Mbeef61]

Yes, Your name, city and state. State may be abbreviated.

I have to engrave in addition to the manufacturers markings?

 

[wired]

I have to engrave in addition to the manufacturers markings?

Yes. from the free stamp Form 1 . See #7 .

 

[CountryGent]

So for the new brace rule, we don't have to engrave anything unless a gun trust owns the gun?

See @wired post.

 

[PiratePast40]

I was under the impression that it only needed to be engraved if you are the manufacturer or maker.

 

[Mbeef61]

Yes. from the free stamp Form 1 . See #7 .

View attachment 1350916

Correct me if I am wrong, but is sig not the maker in my case?

 

[wired]

I was under the impression that it only needed to be engraved if you are the manufacturer or maker.

You are the maker. The maker is the person filing the form. In the FAQ the ATF states you dont have to engrave manufacturer markings and you can use the original serial number which is true but that doesn't mean you dont have to engrave your makers information. Tyoical half bubblegum ATF instructions.

Correct me if I am wrong, but is sig not the maker in my case?

Sig is the original manufacturer. You are the maker of the SBR.

 

[Yarome]

The RP docs and BGC I fill out for an NFA transfer aren't done on the trust. Theyre done on me.

Exactly! And requires another form to actually transfer registered ownership of your NFA from yourself to your trust. I believe everyone knows that as fact.

The rest of it... I said what I had to say, others are welcome to follow up with their trust attorneys as they see fit... and know that you will argue anything you've decided is "your truth" until hell freezes over. Even if you have to try and twist up what people say or even make it up as you go.

I'm done indulging and enteraining you on this particular subject.

 

[holinshed]

If you are referring to a complete firearm that you purchased, the ATF FAQ says specifically that you can adopt the original markings. (Meaning you are not required to engrave it with your personal information.)

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download

27. ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED, AM I REQUIRED TO MARK THE FIREARM SINCE I MANUFACTURED
A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR)?

• If the SBR equipped with a "stabilizing brace" is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance
period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker's marking
exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the
firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92
& 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1.

That isn't to say you won't find something that says the exact opposite somewhere else on the ATF site like @wired is linking to, but the above is what the FAQ on the ATF site says.

 

[Mbeef61]

If you are referring to a complete firearm that you purchased, the ATF FAQ says specifically that you can adopt the original markings. (Meaning you are not required to engrave it with your personal information.)

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download

27. ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED, AM I REQUIRED TO MARK THE FIREARM SINCE I MANUFACTURED
A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR)?

• If the SBR equipped with a "stabilizing brace" is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance
period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker's marking
exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the
firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92
& 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1.

That isn't to say you won't find something that says the exact opposite somewhere else on the ATF site like @wired is linking to, but the above is what the FAQ on the ATF site says.

Exactly what I was looking for thank you. Now just to wait for the 120 day period

 

[Caveman Jim]

Registration leads to confiscation.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

If you are referring to a complete firearm that you purchased, the ATF FAQ says specifically that you can adopt the original markings. (Meaning you are not required to engrave it with your personal information.)

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regulations/docs/undefined/faqfinalrule2021r-08f-correctedpdf/download

27. ONCE THE FIREARM IS REGISTERED, AM I REQUIRED TO MARK THE FIREARM SINCE I MANUFACTURED
A SHORT-BARRELED RIFLE (SBR)?

• If the SBR equipped with a "stabilizing brace" is registered within the 120-day tax forbearance
period, the possessor is allowed to adopt the markings on the firearm. The maker's marking
exception is only applicable to firearms that are registered pursuant to the final rule. If the
firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 & 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1.

That isn't to say you won't find something that says the exact opposite somewhere else on the ATF site like @wired is linking to, but the above is what the FAQ on the ATF site says.

Thx much for that!

So does "If the firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 & 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1."

Refer to something like an 80%? I think we have to assume so?

Or does it refer to making a firearm as in making a sbr via a form 1. I think we have to assume no?

Also I wonder if they mean (a) purchased as a pistol with attached brace from the manufacturer, vs (b) purchased as a pistol with no brace, then added a brace later (maybe they call that a personally made firearm?).

Damn this stuff is ridiculously confusing!

Also like you said the faq may conflict with other parts (similar to the directly conflicting dates for gun trust).

For the record, I interpret what you posted as: if it's an 80% with no markings then you need to mark it, otherwise no additional markings are needed beyond the existing manufacturers markings.

 

[holinshed]

Thx much for that!

So does "If the firearm is a personally made firearm, the possessor must mark in accordance with 27 CFR 478.92 & 479.102 prior to submitting the E-Form 1."

Refer to something like an 80%? I think we have to assume so?

Or does it refer to making a firearm as in making a sbr via a form 1. I think we have to assume no?

Also I wonder if they mean (a) purchased as a pistol with attached brace from the manufacturer, vs (b) purchased as a pistol with no brace, then added a brace later (maybe they call that a personally made firearm?).

Damn this stuff is ridiculously confusing!

Also like you said the faq may conflict with other parts (similar to the directly conflicting dates for gun trust).

For the record, I interpret what you posted as: if it's an 80% with no markings then you need to mark it, otherwise no additional markings are needed beyond the existing manufacturers markings.

Everything you said is how I would interpret it as well, but everything is as clear as mud.

I think the ATF position is that an individual is not "making" an SBR, but is (as of the 2021R-08F ruling) an unlicensed person in possession of a "braced SBR". And for that they are offering a 120 day amnesty period for the individual to become a licensed possessor of an SBR. (Like you mentioned - if it was an 80% build then your probably would still have to engrave, as you did indeed "make" the firearm, which is now a "braced SBR" and must also conform to marking requirements.)

Page 270 (Section V, subsection B) of the ruling has options for affected persons, and option #3 states you could permanently alter your pistol so that it no longer accepts a brace, which in my mind would make the original purchase with or without the brace a moot point.

https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regul...armswithattachedstabilizingbracespdf/download

 

[edzz]

The ATF ruling on the braces has indicated that an individual, not a trust, needs to do the form1 application.
As such, the engraving would need to be in compliance with ATF specs.
Assuming the lower was produced by a manufacturer, you would only need add your name, city and state. Example photo below.

Every NFA Engraving Requirement You Need to Know About – Silencer Central

If you own an NFA item, like a suppressor or an SBR, that was made by a company, you no doubt noticed that it is engraved much like any other firearm with various markings such as the make, model…

www.silencercentral.com

pretty straight forward.

View attachment 1350713

Um, pretty straight forward but still a bit muddy, I know just have to be the one that will ask. Are there any restrictions on the font to be used as long as it meets the 1/16inch height and .003 depth? Reason I ask is I have an old engraver (retired from a participation award trophy shop) that is capable of any font my computer can provide and as either rotary or drag engraving.
So... can I use one of the fancy fonts that only an graphics artist would recognize?

 

[Yarome]

Um, pretty straight forward but still a bit muddy, I know just have to be the one that will ask. Are there any restrictions on the font to be used as long as it meets the 1/16inch height and .003 depth? Reason I ask is I have an old engraver (retired from a participation award trophy shop) that is capable of any font my computer can provide and as either rotary or drag engraving.
So... can I use one of the fancy fonts that only an graphics artist would recognize?

I don't know of any font restrictions, however, it has to be "easily" and "readibly" legible. So if your run of the mill, public educated millenial, 2 months on the force LEO has any difficulty reading it at first glance.. it might be considered not to be in compliance.

I wouldn't get too creatively expressive with it.