Enfield No4 Purchase Question - Debating Sending Back

[Drako]

Throwing this out for opinions.

I recently ordered a Surplus Good Enfield No4 from Classic Firearms to get a Canadian Long Branch No4 into my collection. When I went to pick it up at the FFL and there were red flags all over. These were being sold as Surplus Good, which I know is meaningless at this point, but you'd expect an average condition for a well used rifle. It was 95% in the white, but the wood was okay and I can live with the condition. The part I couldn't live with was that the bolt and the safety had issues.

The bolt head does not stay in the channel so it makes it near impossible to work the bolt. You have to guide it into the channel manually to get it to close. If you pull back with even a moderate amount of force the bolt almost comes out of the receiver as the bolt head just spins around on its own. Assuming it's the bolt it'll need some repair work or replacement.

The safety lever is...attached. It has no retention to speak of and just flops around even thought the screws are tight. I think it engages but its certainly not functioning as it should.

I refused the item at the FFL due to these issues as they are far more than cosmetic, but now in working with Classic Firearms for an RMA they are talking 15% restocking fee and other fees if I ship it back. I really didn't want a gunsmith special and to me that is what this is.

At this point I'm leaning towards shipping it back and fighting the restocking fees. Based on the communications with their customer service I have a feeling this will not go well.

Am I being unrealistic here? Anyone been in a similar situation? How did it work out?

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[Aero Denezol]

Enfields and bolt heads... *facepalm*. Been there, done that. Scouring Numrich, Sarco, and eBay for Enfield parts.. Keeping the Enfields I have but never buying another one!

What you describe is definitely not normal. Send it back to Classic. FWIW I stopped buying from Classic a few years ago. I rec'd a few blemished and broken items, I don't trust them.

HK Parts is another bunch of jerks. They will burn you over $20, they DGAS.

Atlantic Firearms on the other hand, is a great company.

 

[Nosferatu]

I've disputed unreasonable "restocking" fees and other nonsense with my CC company with great success. I wouldn't put up with being financially responsible for their inability to properly describe an item before it's purchased.

 

[WAW44]

Return it, call your CC, write a nice, but forceful letter to Classic on the reason for the return. From their own website in the description " However, we do warranty them for function and we think that they are a tremendous value. " Ask for full text of this warranty, and how they define functional, get a local gunsmith to write you a letter declaring the firearm non-functional and unsafe. Having authority back you up always helps.

The bolt being so out of spec seems to be non-functional and thus subject to the warranty, whatever it may be.

Finally, these are all coming out of Ethiopia via RTI and are mostly garbage.

 

[Drako]

Really solid replies and thank you. Agreed on the bolts, did some research on bolts for Enfield's and that gave me pause. Just locating one or trying to assemble one from parts is a big headache. I am going to ship back the rifle and deal with the hassle. I'll work with my CC company if they want to try the restocking fees crap. Good suggestion there.

I think I'm done buying Milsurp online and from Classic in particular. They used to get some interesting surplus and much of it was in good condition, but that was many moons ago.

And yes on this being part of the RTI batch. This rifle was rough and was clearly abused. If I had known they were coming from Ethiopia I would have stayed away considering what I've heard from others.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Not sure if this holds any legal weight, but a "good " designation implies a functional weapon. The condition described is unservicable, and possibly dangerous to fire .

If it were sold as "complete , for parts only ", the price would have probably been far less.

 

[Bsteinhauer28]

I will never buy from RTI, classic or any of the other sites selling surplus as a grab bag with no pictures of the actual firearm that would be received. Hell I only really do auctions if there is enough photography (and even then there is a chance to have the same thing that happened to you happen). I would say take the loss and save a little extra for when a good example goes on NWFA or locally.

 

[wolfcreed]

I picked up a US Savage Enfield from RTI last year that was imported from from Ethiopia. It too had lost a substantial amount of its original finish. I played with the action to dry fire it and it seemed fine, but only to find out later the extractor was not working when I put a live round in it and cycled the round. By the time I did this test it was too late to return.

I paid for a collector grade and this was far from it. I decided to keep it anyway and only because I always wanted a US Property Marked Savage and I didn't pay the premium they were asking. Cost me another $35.00 to fix it and I am happy now.

Classic states in their description they dry fire each one for function and inspect. Definitely an oversight on their part. Based on your findings they should pay for the return shipping and send you another one. If you decide to keep it I see Liberty Tree Collectors has a lot of No 4 spare parts for sale.

Best of luck

 

[F2CMaDMaXX]

I was lucky and picked up a US Property marked Savage a few years ago, sold it, and through some weird situation, ended up with it 'gifted' back to me.
What do these cost nowadays anyway?

 

[WAW44]

I was lucky and picked up a US Property marked Savage a few years ago, sold it, and through some weird situation, ended up with it 'gifted' back to me.
What do these cost nowadays anyway?

That's an interesting marking, the star, or whatever on the butt and the receiver. Any idea what it is?

A good clean mid war matching no.4 is probably around $500 , regardless of make after you're done negotiating. Usually posted around $550-600 range. If it went through refurbs, or is an ex-Paki or Ethiopian gun, probably less as these are usually more worn. Early 41-42 guns will be more. Savage or Longbranch 41 dated Mk1 guns, lot more. Post war English made Mk1 guns and Mk1/2 and mk1/3 conversions will be about the same, $500 ballpark. 1949-1950 Longbranch (last batch made) rifles will be more, as will 1955 UF series mk2 guns, last series made by ROF(F). These will go up to $1000.

That's my experience based on forums and sales between private collectors. I don't buy from dealers or auctions anymore.

 

[WAW44]

That's an interesting marking, the star, or whatever on the butt and the receiver. Any idea what it is?

Actually, found it. Thai government acceptance mark. Post war obviously. Interesting....

 

[WAW44]

Really solid replies and thank you. Agreed on the bolts, did some research on bolts for Enfield's and that gave me pause. Just locating one or trying to assemble one from parts is a big headache. I am going to ship back the rifle and deal with the hassle. I'll work with my CC company if they want to try the restocking fees crap. Good suggestion there.

I think I'm done buying Milsurp online and from Classic in particular. They used to get some interesting surplus and much of it was in good condition, but that was many moons ago.

And yes on this being part of the RTI batch. This rifle was rough and was clearly abused. If I had known they were coming from Ethiopia I would have stayed away considering what I've heard from others.

Talk to Tim @Velzey . Have him identify the issue and write it up. Having a gunsmith declaring a firearm non-functional and unsafe probably carries more weight than you just saying "this ain't right."

It may be the bolt, it may be the receiver. Longbranch and Savage Mk1* guns are prone to worn or chipped bolt tracks that allow the bolthead to pop out or bind. See this thread: https://www.gunboards.com/threads/is-this-receiver-junk-no-no-its-not.1200461/

Safety just flopping around is usually a worn spring. That tension keeps it in place.