End of posting guns for sale on internet sites?

[slimmer13]

Everyone knows there are a ton of people out there who sell guns for profit without a liscence. It's the same person who has the newest whiz bang gun on the market unfired and nib the week it comes out, for more than it sells for, time after time. It's the guy that after Sandy hook, finds a DPMS AR at Wallyworld, and immediately puts it back up for sale for $1800.

I see this as a warning they will be coming after these guys when before the ATF didn't have the manpower. I don't see it affecting normal legal activities (in free states).

 

[Medic!]

Everyone knows there are a ton of people out there who sell guns for profit without a liscence. It's the same person who has the newest whiz bang gun on the market unfired and nib the week it comes out, for more than it sells for, time after time. It's the guy that after Sandy hook, finds a DPMS AR at Wallyworld, and immediately puts it back up for sale for $1800.

I see this as a warning they will be coming after these guys when before the ATF didn't have the manpower. I don't see it affecting normal legal activities (in free states).

This is federal. There are no exempt states.
And The Obama administration will be the one to decide what activities are LEGAL!

Kinda makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it?


To some it's just too bitter a pill to even look at. But don't put your head in the sand on this one.

You need to go back to the crystal ball and look deeper.
When your scared $hitless at the possibilities. Then you've looked deep enough!

 

[DuneHopper]

Oregon already ( thanks to SB941 ) says a background check must be done at sale.
As far as that goes I doubt it will affect many people depending how you look at it.

In states that do not have BGC at all could be affected the most however firearms that were bought prior to the signing of the president will not be traceable. So hypothetically if the gun was sold new before the signing and now is being resold if the two parties lie and say oh it was sold and bought prior there is not allot that can be done. Sb941 is the same with the Aug 9th date anything bought new prior hypothetically sold after Aug 9th if the two lie there is no way to trace it. That said I advice against for the reason its against the law and I would never encourage people to do that . . keep in mind any new guns sold from and FFL after the signing of these laws would be traceable I am sure with the feds taking allot of this over.

Not knocking anyones prices here at NWFA but after SB941 those willing to buy and sell in the dark have been gouging those in my opinion willing to take the risk. SKS's 500.00 Mosins 300.00 give me a break. We all know prior to 2008 these were half that price or and less. If this law passes it will be reversed buyers will have the upper because private seller cant get FFL's to pay what private would. People wont by private nation wide paranoia will set in like it has in Oregon and people will begin to comply. Things will be different when the Feds are running it, it wont be the State OSP alone it will be the feds keeping a registration list and sales will be heavely monitored as well as the internet it just got real bad folks. I am going to take a guess and say the feds will rule this legally as a dealer without a license much more stiff penalty then failure to do a BGC is now in Oregon.

Maybe I am wrong but so far this is how I am seeing it.

 

[WAYNO]

Lots of people will think it really doesn't affect them. And they will stand back and watch the law happen. Then, one day the Govt will hang the same folks that thought this law wouldn't affect them much.

And splitting hairs? Some folks might also argue they are not in "the business". Then one prosecutor will argue that it was plain as day that you used the internet to advertise and/or otherwise dispose of a firearm, and become the example.

Don't think for a moment that this doesn't apply to some folks, or that it weeds out only the folks that need weeding.

WAYNO.

paraphrased...

First they came for the machine guns, and I did not speak out—
Because I did not own a machine gun.

Then they came for the semi-auto rifles and shotguns, and I did not speak out—
Because I did not own a semi-auto rifle or shotgun.

Then they came for the handguns, and I did not speak out—
Because I did not own a handgun.

Then they came for my hunting bolt action rifle and my pump shotgun—and there were no patriots left to speak for me.

 

[Medic!]

Current law still keeps burden of proof on ATF, regardless of what his exec order said.

18 USC 921

(21) The term "engaged in the business" means—

(C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A)

.....but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/html/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap44-sec921.htm

I saw this in another thread.

Thanks, KTM530XCW

This puts some restraint on my fears!
Some!

 

[KTM530XCW]

Yup. Like most here, I'm all about buying and selling to make my collection as prefect as i can.

I firmly adhear to the belief that the only reason to sell a gun is so you can buy another, better, one. Luckily the law specifically protects this.

So... im off to post a revolver.

 

[DuneHopper]

Yup. Like most here, I'm all about buying and selling to make my collection as prefect as i can.

I firmly adhear to the belief that the only reason to sell a gun is so you can buy another, better, one. Luckily the law specifically protects this.

So... im off to post a revolver.

Amen........

 

[CHLChris]

For years I was in and out of guns like they were going out of style. That is, until experience has taught me what exact guns I really like and want to keep in my "personal collection" (the media would call it my "arsenal"). It was my luck that I my fast and furious buying and selling sort of came to a natural pause right before SB941. So I feel okay about my choice to never sell another gun in my life.

But what about the new gun owners coming up behind us? How will they navigate all this crap to figure out what they like or don't, want to own, want to sell? What a desperate loss of rights and freedoms we have sustained in the last couple of years!!

 

[jbett98]

I see a lot of guns being put on consignment in the near future.
Good for the gun stores, bad for the seller.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

mental incompetence is what this is

 

[scrandall01215]

Current law still keeps burden of proof on ATF, regardless of what his exec order said.

18 USC 921

(21) The term "engaged in the business" means—

(C) as applied to a dealer in firearms, as defined in section 921(a)(11)(A)

.....but such term shall not include a person who makes occasional sales, exchanges, or purchases of firearms for the enhancement of a personal collection or for a hobby, or who sells all or part of his personal collection of firearms;

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2011-title18/html/USCODE-2011-title18-partI-chap44-sec921.htm

This is true NOW, what about when they REWRITE things? I thought writing new policy was one of his line items we won't know until he's done it.

Stacy

 

[CHLChris]

Consignment... That really brings up some ideas in my head.

By the way, that made me go to the internet and search what it would take to get an FFL. I got to question 18: "Do you intend to make a profit?" If not, you're not even allowed to send in an application. Question 19: "Do you only intend to use your license to acquire personal firearms?" If so, you're not even allowed to send in an application.

Unless this form changes significantly, personal sellers do not need to be worried about the ATF since I don't think I have EVER made a profit on a gun sale.

 

[PaulB47]

"For example, a person can be engaged in the business of dealing in firearms even if the person only conducts firearm transactions at gun shows or through the Internet."

How about if a person conducts a sale out of the trunk of his car?

If people pay attention to this BS, they will deserve to be made into slaves. At some point people just have to give up their fear.

RIGHT NOW the government can ruin your life and kill you if they please. It doesn't take a pronouncement from Obama to be in that condition. It's been that way for years, maybe decades. Look at Ruby Ridge. Look at 2.3 million Americans in jail, most of them political prisoners.

Some laws and rules just cry out to be ignored. Just make sure you bring your battle rifle to any transaction, heh.

 

[jluck]

Selling "guns". That's plural. only sell one at a time. "gun".. fixed.

 

[CHLChris]

I've had a multiple gun deal before.

Is that like the occasional menage a trois story we've all heard, but assumed he's lying?

 

[308]

I'm looking forward to one of those new technology guns that keeps people safer...like the 2/3 of gun deaths related to suicide...safer suicides. Thanks Zero...you 'da mang!

 

[freestoneangler]

So, is a handwritten cardboard sign in my car window or taped on my back at a gun show considered "other technology"?

Going forward I declare no more bubbleguming lawyers and you must have honorably worn the military uniform in defense of the nation you are being sworn to protect.

Complete and utter window dressing which does nothing (NOTHING!) but leave vague lawyer-esk language to screw the law abiding citizens they are sworn to serve.

Sworn to protect, sworn to serve... am I the only one seeing a pattern of dereliction of duty here? And, has Barry been secretly attending acting school? That was an impressive weep he displayed .

 

[nammac]

How about this -
"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so....
Thomas Jefferson

Or - as Thomas Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence:
"... whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new Government..."

 

[elsie]

I'm more interested in what the actual text of the EO is, rather than a so-called 'fact sheeet'.


elsie

 

[308]

The following quote made me consider .gov really may have no idea what is going on in America as relates to firearms and how to make a good decision about them, so with that in mind I think one might consider they are using this process:

Measurement is the first step that leads to control and eventually to improvement. If you can't measure something, you can't understand it. If you can't understand it, you can't control it. If you can't control it, you can't improve it.
--H. James Harrington​

As hard as it is to concede .gov may be dealing in good faith, and simply wants to improve the issue relative to firearms, then they must measure (UBC) with the hope to (improve) the situation once they (understand) who is selling to whom, when and where to have some (control) over what they perceive to be an out of control situation.

I hope that made some sort of sense..