EMP proof Cars

[cooperritchey]

Some people think a jeep or a truck is a good survival vehicle, but there not EMP proof. thinking about getting an older vehicle. thoughts????

Something like this.

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[v0lcom13sn0w]

79-85 toyota 4x4 with a 20r or 22r engine and manual trans. dang trucks go everywhere and need little work. just maintenance

 

[orygun]

Some people think a jeep or a truck is a good survival vehicle, but there not EMP proof.

I believe it has a lot more to do with ignition style and computer controls than type of vehicle.

Although an older Baja bug with no electronics wouldn't be bad choice if you didn't plan on hauling much, plus they are pretty economical. Toyota 4cyl trucks could be had without EFI until about 86-87 and those would be a good choice, too, if you had an earlier, non electronic, ignition fitted to it.

Me? I'll stick with my 60's Fords. Just need to make sure I have access to fuel!

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

x2 on no electronics/ control modules. we had a directv van come in to my work that had been struck by lightening...if i can remember right the technician replaced the engine control module, body control module and transmission control module before it was right again.

 

[powersbj]

I have heard that the emp effects on vehicles are greatly exaggerated.

 

[orygun]

I have heard that the emp effects on vehicles are greatly exaggerated.

I believe that if the unit isn't "powered up" it may not harm it. The computer on most cars, though, draws power constantly, so who knows.

However, electronics is not my strong point. Would love to hear from someone who has more experience.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

i am a GM dealership technician. Typically in a GM vehicle, once the vehicle has gone to "sleep"each model is different but will draw 15-20mA constantly... if equipped with an active OnStar account could wake up every 2-3 days and draw upwards of 50-70mA for a short amount of time. i suppose when lightening hit that rig then the voltage spike must have back fed into the modules and literally frying them. not sure what an EMP would do but, in my experience any sort of change in voltage to a module can do really really odd things.

 

[Riot]

I have heard that the emp effects on vehicles are greatly exaggerated.

Like anything...distance from the source, amount of EM pulses subjected to an item and the strength of the signal determine a great deal. The US military has been utilizing EMPs for a bit now, even have them perfected to directional weaponry along with having EM pules used to defend perimeters. Almost everything in the military arsenal is shielded from EMPs...that should tell you something right there...but you can believe some YouTube video over me, if you wish.

 

[AMProducts]

So let me point a few things out here...

First, if you're thinking about buying a baja, as a BOV, and have never owned a mid-60's to 70's VW, you're high. When I had a VW baja back in high school, I paid $300 for the car, and pretty much every other weekend would either put hundreds of dollars of parts, or spend the entire weekend tearing it apart to fix some nuisance issue. This makes no mention of the numerous field fixes that were required on the weekends I wasn't working on it. Don't get me wrong, they're a lot of fun, but unless you have a lot of experience working on them, and have a big budget you are out of your friggin mind thinking about adopting one as a BOV. Not to mention if you can find one with a pan that isn't rotted end to end, it's probably worth more as a collector vehicle.

That said, EMP is not that big a deal for cars, while even new cars may have tons of wiring in them, you'd be lucky to find any wire longer than 30' outside the starter and alternator. Even then, those wires are all wound up so there's going to be a lot of attenuation, not to mention all of these parts are normally shielded so they don't create RF noise when operating.

Before I go any further, go read the "EMP Commission report": they have a whole section dedicated to transportation: http://www.empcommission.org/docs/A2473-EMP_Commission-7MB.pdf

There are a number of things in there, and what I think relatively few people appreciate is just how hardened most modern cars are to EMP. This is mainly because modern cars are full of lots of RF sensitive components, however cars are also exposed to crazy amounts of RF on a daily basis.

One of the radio sites I've visited in the past down in socal is Mt Wilson, which is completely covered in every kind of transmitter going from about 50mhz up to several ghz, with powerful FM stations, tv broadcasters, land mobile radio, etc. Despite being exposed to several stations transmitting at 100kW, vehicles don't just drop dead. Some people occasionally have issues with cars up there, but usually it's keyless entry systems that suffer front end overload. So if you're worried about your car being EMP proof, make sure it has a normal every day key.

Anyways, I thought I would throw out the section from the EMP Report on autos. Please note, the 30kV/m number they give here, was between 2-3 times the amount of power it took to greatly damage all kinds of things, from transformers, to traffic lights, to scada systems that control power plants, trains, gas pipelines and sewage treatment.

An EMP proof BOV is probably the one sitting in your garage.

We tested a sample of 37 cars in an EMP simulation laboratory, with automobile vin-tages ranging from 1986 through 2002. Automobiles of these vintages include extensive
electronics and represent a significant fraction of automobiles on the road today. The
testing was conducted by exposing running and nonrunning automobiles to sequentially
increasing EMP field intensities. If anomalousresponse (either temporary or permanent)
was observed, the testing of that particular automobile was stopped. If no anomalous
response was observed, the testing was continued up to the field intensity limits of the
simulation capability (approximately 50 kV/m).
Automobiles were subjected to EMP environments under both engine turned off and
engine turned on conditions. No effects were subsequently observed in those automobiles
that were not turned on during EMP exposure. The most serious effect observed on run-ning automobiles was that the motors in three cars stopped at field strengths of approxi-mately 30 kV/m or above. In an actual EMP exposure, these vehicles would glide to a
stop and require the driver to restart them. Electronics in the dashboard of one automobile
were damaged and required repair. Other effects were relatively minor. Twenty-five
automobiles exhibited malfunctions that could be considered only a nuisance (e.g.,
blinking dashboard lights) and did not require driver intervention to correct. Eight of the
37 cars tested did not exhibit any anomalous response.
Based on these test results, we expect few automobile effects at EMP field levels below
25 kV/m. Approximately 10 percent or more ofthe automobiles exposed to higher field
levels may experience serious EMP effects, including engine stall, that require driver
intervention to correct. We further expect that at least two out of three automobiles on the
road will manifest some nuisance response atthese higher field levels. The serious mal-functions could trigger car crashes on U.S. highways; the nuisance malfunctions could
exacerbate this condition. The ultimate result of automobile EMP exposure could be trig-gered crashes that damage many more vehicles than are damaged by the EMP, the conse-quent loss of life, and multiple injuries.

 

[Gator Monroe]

66-70 Scout/Bronco

 

[The Heretic]

An EMP proof BOV is probably the one sitting in your garage.

You mean that '97 Dodge 4x4 with a Cummins sitting in my metal skinned shop?

 

[AMProducts]

You mean that '97 Dodge 4x4 with a Cummins sitting in my metal skinned shop?

Or sitting in a field, or in the parking lot at the grocery store, etc etc.

Thing about it is, if you actually want attenuation you need to do better than just have it in a metal box, you will get reflection from certain bands, but essentially what you need to create are a set of RF chokes. Imagine it as a set of interlocking, yet not electrically connected triangles that all have a ready path to ground. You can do one better by using certain materials that have varied magnetic properties (like the ones used for making staters in electric motors). Also, two layers of chicken wire, isolated by a distance of about 2" works really well.

 

[The Heretic]

Well, since my truck will start and run whether there is an EMP blast or not, I am not too worried about shielding. The shielding will probably protect some of the charging system and the dash electronics, but the starter and the engine don't depend on that.

 

[Medic!]

I'm good.