Email from Oregon State University this morning

[erudne]

Whatever. I carried at an OUS school today. And I will tomorrow. And the next day.

Just a heads up, FYI etc.
anyone wanting to make your life a living hell can turn that post into DHS and get you on thier "Probable Terrorist List". Your phone will be tapped as will your computer

 

[Allfat]

.....other visitors to OSU will be subject to exclusion from campus....

Question though. Do they have the right to ask you to leave and then have your arrested for trespass? Because the policy says nothing about Random Joe Schmuckatelly. Is OSU private property or public?

It is addressed, but I am not entirely sure what exclusion from campus means. Probably kicked off campus, maybe barred from returning. I really do not know.

 

[branson4020]

Question though. Do they have the right to ask you to leave and then have your arrested for trespass? Because the policy says nothing about Random Joe Schmuckatelly. Is OSU private property or public?

The policy explicitly includes visitors. If you, Mr. Schmuckatelly, are caught with a firearm in, say, they gymnasium bldg, because you went there to met a friend, you will be told to leave. If you do not comply, you can be arrested for trespass. As to the public/private property distinction, the University campuses are clearly 'public' property, but it doesn't matter. The current court ruling recognizes that the legislature gave the University Board of Trustees the power to control access to campus property. Barring further court rulings, they get to make the rules just like a private property owner does.

 

[branson4020]

Just a heads up, FYI etc.
anyone wanting to make your life a living hell can turn that post into DHS and get you on thier "Probable Terrorist List". Your phone will be tapped as will your computer

Too late, they've already seen it.

 

[Norm0931]

I still don't understand why these laws/rules/policies are popping up. Nearly every school shooting has been at campuses that have this act law/rule/policy. The day there is a news story called "School shooting foiled by student with concealed handgun" will be a sweet sweet victory.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

On a related point, anyone see the anti-gun editorial in the fishwrapper today?
Praising the board of education etc...

 

[salmonriverjohn]

Boycott all events, all alumni should refuse to give to the school. I approached this with an alumni that always flips for a sky box for the football games, he is an avid hunter and carry's daily, his Irish red hackles raised, his ears turned even redder and then he said, enough, I've had enough. (his words), First this guy they call a coach, and now this BS? He said, I'll call you back later and hung up, my ear still has a blister. I'm sure he is lighting up some phones today

 

[OregonPlinker]

Im sorry for being uninformed and asking a stupid question. I also googled it and came up with bug spray... Could someone fill me in on what OFF stands for? Thanks a bunch!

 

[Mark W.]

the new rules only effect someone who has signed a contract with the schools. If I walk on to wander around looking at COEDs sunning themselves between classes I have not signed any contract with anyone. So I guess I could still carry.

Silly stupid narrow minded morons. Luckily they teach.

 

[fd15k]

Im sorry for being uninformed and asking a stupid question. I also googled it and came up with bug spray... Could someone fill me in on what OFF stands for? Thanks a bunch!

oregonfirearms.org

 

[fd15k]

the new rules only effect someone who has signed a contract with the schools. If I walk on to wander around looking at COEDs sunning themselves between classes I have not signed any contract with anyone. So I guess I could still carry.

Silly stupid narrow minded morons. Luckily they teach.

As several members noted above, random visitors are explicitly included in the new policy. Should they notice you are carrying, you will be asked to leave or charged with trespassing.

 

[CharonPDX]

The way I understand this new attempt is that they (think they) can do it by making you agree to it as a condition of attending an OUS event. Yet I don't know how this could retroactively effect individuals who agreed to different conditions. If I had signed my student application last year, before this "policy" was enacted, they can't just retroactively apply it to me, can they?

 

[branson4020]

The way I understand this new attempt is that they (think they) can do it by making you agree to it as a condition of attending an OUS event. Yet I don't know how this could retroactively effect individuals who agreed to different conditions. If I had signed my student application last year, before this "policy" was enacted, they can't just retroactively apply it to me, can they?

Yes, it can be applied to all students, immediately. There is no weaseling around this. It must be challenged head-on in the courts, which I personally think is a long-shot. The real way to change this is through the legislature.

 

[branson4020]

the new rules only effect someone who has signed a contract with the schools. If I walk on to wander around looking at COEDs sunning themselves between classes I have not signed any contract with anyone. So I guess I could still carry.

Silly stupid narrow minded morons. Luckily they teach.

Does not affect anyone with a CHL just strolling through the grounds. I suppose you could actually open carry (now that's a thought!) Only applies if you try to enter one of the facilities spelled out in the policy.

 

[mat33]

"Individuals found in violation of the policy...will be subject to exclusion from campus...The Court also recognized that the Board has been granted by the Oregon Legislature broad policy control over OUS property."

Call me crazy, but if one of the universities has a few successes with trespassing individuals carrying, I'd expect TriMet to adopt similar a practice in very short order.

 

[fd15k]

Call me crazy, but if one of the universities has a few successes with trespassing individuals carrying, I'd expect TriMet to adopt similar a practice in very short order.

Good point. It's already the case on Amtrak.

 

[bnsaibum]

The members of the Board of Higher Education are educated beyond their intelligence.

 

[Whitman]

In order for a lawsuit to proceed, someone is going to have to be willing to be the test case. I don't think OFF could sue on their own behalf because they don't have standing in the case unless they are the one's that get arrested. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but there's no plaintiff in any case yet.

I am a lawyer. Yes, I admit it. I also have one or two other real world skills, so don't shoot!! I am not an expert in administrative law, but I am interested in this issue (and all issues affecting the rights of gun owners) so I did a bit of research.

Most adversarial legal actions require standing. Simply put, standing means that the plaintiff or petitioner has to claim that they have been actually harmed by the defendant or respondent in order to get the dispute before a judge or jury. Normal standing, however, is not required to seek judicial review of an agency's action under the Oregon Administrative Procedures Act (APA). ORS 183.400(1) states that "any person" may petition the court of appeals to review the validity of a rule (policies are included per the statutory definition of "rule" at ORS 183.310(9)). Nonetheless, the court would likely require actual adversity between the parties. A series of cases makes it apparent that the court will look at the circumstances of the parties to determine justiciability. Which is a roundabout way of saying the court will require "soft" standing, but not a showing of actual harm as required in most cases. Bottom line: this can be challenged in the courts without someone making a ruckus in order to be a test case.

 

[hermannr]

Time to get a couple administrators sent to jail for contempt of court don't you think?

 

[rumblebee1967]

the policy is missing one clear exemption. Namely those criminals or those with criminal intent who dont care what the rules are for. Laws and rules only work on the law abiding and the honest. Its a lot like putting a lock on a glass door.