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In the Willamette Valley, the ground is about 55 degrees F. year round about 10 feet down. Perfect for cooling in the Summer, and warm enough to heat when the air is below freezing.

I looked into this option over 10 years ago. The underground part of the system is ridiculously expensive, even if I dug the trench myself. I have an excavator, and plenty of open area with deep soil to put the trench. Something like a 25-year payoff.
You can get a minimum temp reading if you have a well; by letting the water at a faucet run for some minutes and then holding a thermometer under the water for a while, you get the approx temp of the ground at the well depth.

IIRC, mine is about 45-50*F? This is better than 20-35*F avg air temps in the winter here, and especially at night. I just got an inch of snow - it is melting but I expect more tomorrow morning. It is the night temps that require heating here. I plan to build an ICF walled house with good insulation, a geothermal heat pump, radiant hydronic floor heating in the house and shop. Maybe add "earth tubes" too.

Yes, geothermal heat pump using hydronics is expensive but if the goal is long term self-reliance (and mine is), and you can afford it (and/or DIY - some people have), then this is one step towards less reliance on grid power. I intend to also have solar PV power - enough to run most everything, including the heat pump - again, not cheap, expensive ($2-$4 per watt) and payoff is long term.

What I want to build - a property/shelter that is as self-reliant as possible - is not inexpensive. Which is why I want as much $ as possible from selling my current property.
 
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Noob question on a geothermal heat pump setup. I wonder about if something goes wrong with that buried pipe, time and cost to repair.

I'm not against it, but my mind wanders to things remaining operational.
 
Noob question on a geothermal heat pump setup. I wonder about if something goes wrong with that buried pipe, time and cost to repair.

I'm not against it, but my mind wanders to things remaining operational.
That is an issue, and why it needs to use the best materials and practices/workmanship.

I am not experienced in this domain, but my impression is the most vulnerable components will be the heat pump, valves and control systems, which generally be the exposed/accessible components.
 
You can get a minimum temp reading if you have a well; by letting the water at a faucet run for some minutes and then holding a thermometer under the water for a while, you get the approx temp of the ground at the well depth.

IIRC, mine is about 45-50*F? This is better than 20-35*F avg air temps in the winter here, and especially at night. I just got an inch of snow - it is melting but I expect more tomorrow morning. It is the night temps that require heating here. I plan to build an ICF walled house with good insulation, a geothermal heat pump, radiant hydronic floor heating in the house and shop. Maybe add "earth tubes" too.

Yes, geothermal heat pump using hydronics is expensive but if the goal is long term self-reliance (and mine is), and you can afford it (and/or DIY - some people have), then this is one step towards less reliance on grid power. I intend to also have solar PV power - enough to run most everything, including the heat pump - again, not cheap, expensive ($2-$4 per watt) and payoff is long term.

What I want to build - a property/shelter that is as self-reliant as possible - is not inexpensive. Which is why I want as much $ as possible from selling my current property.
Are you looking for self reliance with grid instability or producing power in addition to? If you're looking for cost effective backup, a generation is a better expenditure than PV.
 
In the Willamette Valley, the ground is about 55 degrees F. year round about 10 feet down. Perfect for cooling in the Summer, and warm enough to heat when the air is below freezing.

I looked into this option over 10 years ago. The underground part of the system is ridiculously expensive, even if I dug the trench myself. I have an excavator, and plenty of open area with deep soil to put the trench. Something like a 25-year payoff.
I have wondered why people haven't buried conduit of some kind in the ground under their house for cooling. And also, in sunny, cold in winter climates, done something like that in the attic? Also don't understand why people in arid climates don't have a portion for the basement dug, concreted and sealed for water storage?
Hell, most of the NEW WAVE all organic eaters could not grow food if they had too. Why? Fred's has a HUGE organic section! DUH.
 
Are you looking for self reliance with grid instability or producing power in addition to? If you're looking for cost effective backup, a generation is a better expenditure than PV.
I am looking at long term off-grid scenarios - such as a Cascadian Subduction Zone earthquake (most likely scenario) and peak carrying capacity collapse.

I do have two small gensets and I intend to have a large (say, 20KW) diesel inverter genset as an adjunctive backup, but primary power will be an oversized PV with a battery storage system. I do intend to have grid power, but I don't want to rely on it. I want to be as self-reliant as possible.

I am thinking of plumbing in a wood furnace too. Oregon will not certify wood furnaces, only wood stoves for heating, so when I build, I would have the plumbing put in for adding the furnace, but not install it. Once the buildings are completed and there are no more inspections, then I can install the furnace.
 
I am looking at long term off-grid scenarios - such as a Cascadian Subduction Zone earthquake (most likely scenario) and peak carrying capacity collapse.

I do have two small gensets and I intend to have a large (say, 20KW) diesel inverter genset as an adjunctive backup, but primary power will be an oversized PV with a battery storage system. I do intend to have grid power, but I don't want to rely on it. I want to be as self-reliant as possible.

I am thinking of plumbing in a wood furnace too. Oregon will not certify wood furnaces, only wood stoves for heating, so when I build, I would have the plumbing put in for adding the furnace, but not install it. Once the buildings are completed and there are no more inspections, then I can install the furnace.
I would stay away from PV and batteries then and focus on a large diesel tank.
 
Noob question on a geothermal heat pump setup. I wonder about if something goes wrong with that buried pipe, time and cost to repair.

I'm not against it, but my mind wanders to things remaining operational.
This depends on what you bury, where you bury it, how likely the site is to disturbance, and other factors. Pretty much, if the soil is deep and stable, all you have to worry about is someone getting a permit to bury a pipeline/utility deep across your heat exchanger field. Other than that, failure of the piping is the major risk. This can be addressed by using high quality materials and avoiding joints under the ground.

Ironically, the State is a huge impediment to using underground water to make ground-source heat pump systems less expensive and more reliable. Ideally, pumping ground water through a heat exchanger and back into the ground is a very efficient system. The pump is the only moving part, and if you use inert piping, the ground water is almost impossible to contaminate. You just heat it or cool it slightly. But the State considers water that goes through such a system as contaminated, and prohibits systems like this.
 
Yes, California Governor Newsom is already expressing regret about having a nuclear facility permanently shutdown in 2025. That plant/site generates 9% of the electricity for California. Got popcorn?...
What he regrets is how pissed off people are going to be at him and his nonsense when time comes for reelection...
 
PV and batteries for LED lighting has become very viable. Low voltage and current mean less battery is needed.

If running water is nearby, an automotive alternator can recharge batteries 24/7 with hydropower.

Appliances will need a generator. Using a tablet instead of a computer might reduce energy requirements enough to run on the PV/battery system.

People who live off-grid have come up with many ways to maintain a quality of life without much electrical power.
 
Eventually I would run out of diesel in a long term scenario - if I wanted electricity every day whenever I needed it.

Whereas PV with batteries will last longer in a long term scenario (long term, as in years).

I plan to have both.
Depending on the battery technology, they only last five to ten years before replacement.
 
Depending on the battery technology, they only last five to ten years before replacement.
Depends on how they are used and what their chemistry is.

If you don't let them completely discharge, and/or don't discharge them every day, they will last longer.

Also, if I am able, I plan to use a iron "flow" battery system, which last a lot longer. If I use LiFePO4 battery, then I probably will not use the battery to provide power back to the grid, only using the PV panels for backfeed the during the day and keep the batteries in reserve.
 
Noob question on a geothermal heat pump setup. I wonder about if something goes wrong with that buried pipe, time and cost to repair.

I'm not against it, but my mind wanders to things remaining operational.
Tubing can be purchased in rolls up to 1000' in length to avoid the use of any fittings in the ground. If the excavation site is rocky, over excavate the depth and add a good quality fill material, such as sand or clean fill dirt. The same applies for covering the tubing with at least 6"-12" of a clean fill material. I wouldn't be too concerned about the tubing if the above is fulfilled. I'm not saying that there hasn't been material failures but threw likelihood of that happening is slim.

The piping, valves, pumps and Heat Pump will not last as long as they should if the owner doesn't properly maintain the system. These systems aren't a Set it and Forget about it.

What I would concern myself with is failure of the components that are subject to wear such as the Heat Pump and the Circulating Pumps. Circulating pumps aren't too expensive and a person could keep a few on hand, just in case. However, the heat pump is a different story. It would help if a person had knowledge of how Refrigeration systems work. A heat pump is basically a refrigerator.
 
I am thinking of plumbing in a wood furnace too. Oregon will not certify wood furnaces, only wood stoves for heating, so when I build, I would have the plumbing put in for adding the furnace, but not install it. Once the buildings are completed and there are no more inspections, then I can install the furnace.
Thus far those whom I've assisted the installing the hydronics are satisfied customers but they did have a learning curve to get them to run efficiently. They can smoke a lot and there is no hiding you're burning wood from those nearby to your location. They do consume a lot of wood, non issue to those with a plentiful supply of wood.

However, I'm willing to bet the manufacturer wouldn't sell you one as a resident of Oregon. I could be wrong.
 
Ironically, the State is a huge impediment to using underground water to make ground-source heat pump systems less expensive and more reliable. Ideally, pumping ground water through a heat exchanger and back into the ground is a very efficient system. The pump is the only moving part, and if you use inert piping, the ground water is almost impossible to contaminate. You just heat it or cool it slightly. But the State considers water that goes through such a system as contaminated, and prohibits systems like this.
By definition it is contaminated, even though it isn't per say. However, that same water was taken out of a source at ground temperature and has entered an environment that is warmer. I would imagine this could effect microbes within the water.

Once water is extracted from an aquifer it needs to be treated prior to introducing it back into the aquifer. I'm in agreement with this policy. An average size open loop ground source heat pump will cycle through approximately 1 million gallons of water in 1 year.

Multiple dwellings utilizing this type of system on one aquifer could have a negative effect of the turbidity of the aquifer. The aquifer would never have the chance for the suspended solids to settle, thus effecting the quality of the water for those utilizing the aquifer for drinking water.
 
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By definition it is contaminated, even though it isn't per say. However, that same water was taken out of a source at ground temperature and has entered an environment that is warmer. I would imagine this could effect microbes within the water.

Once water is extracted from an aquifer it needs to be treated prior to introducing it back into the aquifer. I'm in agreement with this policy. An average size open loop ground source heat pump will cycle through approximately 1 million gallons of water in 1 year.

Multiple dwellings utilizing this type of system on one aquifer would have a negative effect of the turbidity of the aquifer. The aquifer would never have the chance for the suspended solids to settle, thus effecting the quality of the water for those utilizing the aquifer for drinking water.
I'm in a very rural area. The only neighbor is in a separate aquifer, so contamination (with sediment or heat, isn't a problem. My aquifer has a slow flow through the ground, and probably empties out to a small creek a quarter of a mile away. I say this because there is solid bedrock that extends up from the creek bottom in our direction. The creek is many times further away than the minimum distance from a septic tank drain field to a well.

The turbidity argument may "hold water" where houses are clustered together, but it depends on the nature of the composition of the aquifer. An open-flowing buried 'gravel bar" would let a lot of turbidity pass, but it also would be less to the "waste" flow kicking up turbidity.

Most domestic water systems use filtration. A common method is a Sand Filter, which essentially mimics the effect of water moving through the ground. A properly designed system would not kick up turbidity when it discharged. If I used well water from this aquifer to run a heat pump, and a properly designed system, I'd be pumping out drinkable water, running it through Food Grade pumps and heat exchangers, and discharging it back into the ground without adding any turbidity and just the same amount of heat as an isolated buried pipe system.

My home town attempted to store water by recharging an aquifer. It pumped treated water into the ground, and the end result was that this water disappeared, and the nearby residents wells began discharging treated water, which wasn't turbid!

Next, explain to me how heating the ground water using water pumped through pipes doesn't heat up the microbes in the ground water.

I may be a special case, but there is no way that a system that I describe can harm the ground water any worse that my septic system, and not even close to that!
 
explain to me how heating the ground water using water pumped through pipes doesn't heat up the microbes in the ground water
This is what I got out of it: It is a closed loop, like a monstrous radiator. Once filled, the pipes cycle the same water. Up to provide heat, and back into the ground where the sealed pipes are buried to get heated up again. That water does not go back into the aquifer. Microbes would be irrelevant.

Open loop would suck from the aquifer and spit it back in directly after the water has done the job. It never stops sucking and spitting (giggity).

The difference between doing that and your drain field is the field is no different than naturally occurring precipitation, which reenters the aquifer like everything else, as opposed to direct injection way down below.

Aquifers can be very delicate, and messing with them could have unintended, permanent consequences, like sinkholes and stuff. Your hometown figured that out with their experience.
 

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