Elderly man shoots robbers in internet cafe

[Joe Link]

I haven't seen this posted here, but if it was please let me know.

Original article here: <broken link removed>

Video: <broken link removed>

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[Bigfoot]

Great job Mr W.

He closed the distance when DuWayne wasn't looking to lessen the chance of stray shots. Or maybe he was hoping to get close and defuse the situation without shooting. DuWayne sees him coming and sweeps his pistol onto Pops but Pops was already on target and pulled his trigger first. Then he chased them both out firing all the way.

Feets, don't fail me now!!! Bet they soiled themselves.

 

[Zepoll]

Good video of all three cameras in order at The Truth About Guns

Defensive Gun Use of the Day: Cyberspace Edition | The Truth About GunsThe Truth About Guns

I betcha that's a whole room filled with new 2a supporters now.

 

[nitestocker]

what type 380 was he using

 

[krkruse]

3 Things about this video..

1. That guy is awesome and I like how honest he was about being frighted.
2. Makes me want to get out and practice even more
3. Dudes awesome.

 

[Burt Gummer]

You know we really shouldn't play cop or Batman in most situations. The only people with a license to murder is cops.

If you or someone else's life is in jeopardy - if a reasonable person would believe that - then of course, draw/fire.

A calm bank robber using a gun for instance. I would not even think of stepping up and shooting in most cases. If the robber said 'I am going to count to five and then blow your brains out' - then yes.

Be careful out there. Don't just immediately go to war with someone carrying a gun or robbing a place unless you really believe you/others are in danger. Better to let the robber take the loot and leave.

How would you like to shoot a robber and then have the witnesses all say they didn't think he'd shoot, seemed like just a guy down on his luck, etc?

I know that may not be 'heroic' but it may keep you out of trouble.

That said - I believe wholehearted that this shooting was justified just because of the way the robbery went down. Two guys with guns frantically rushing in ..... a reasonable person would assume the chance of them getting shot/killed was high.

 

[Vantage]

You know we really shouldn't play cop or Batman in most situations. The only people with a license to murder is cops.

If you or someone else's life is in jeopardy - if a reasonable person would believe that - then of course, draw/fire.

A calm bank robber using a gun for instance. I would not even think of stepping up and shooting in most cases. If the robber said 'I am going to count to five and then blow your brains out' - then yes.

Be careful out there. Don't just immediately go to war with someone carrying a gun or robbing a place unless you really believe you/others are in danger. Better to let the robber take the loot and leave.

How would you like to shoot a robber and then have the witnesses all say they didn't think he'd shoot, seemed like just a guy down on his luck, etc?

I know that may not be 'heroic' but it may keep you out of trouble.

That said - I believe wholehearted that this shooting was justified just because of the way the robbery went down. Two guys with guns frantically rushing in ..... a reasonable person would assume the chance of them getting shot/killed was high.

The written word can be easily misunderstood. So let me first say that my intention is not to be snarky, or a smart___ in any way. But I respectfully disagree with your position.

From the article:

Hours after his release from the hospital, Henderson, who talked about the pain he feels in his buttock and hip, said the plan was to "barge in, get the money and leave." He said "he never expected anyone to be armed."

Had he done nothing, I'm willing to bet that these two would have chalked it up as a successful score and would most likely do it again. Now I' betting they'll think twice about doing something like again. And I'm sure all of they're thug friends will here the story and hopefully they'll remember that people ARE in fact armed, and they'll think twice before attempting something stupid like this.

Waving a gun around at people IS cause for action. One of our (the gun community) very own rules is to never cover anything with the muzzle that you're not prepared to DESTROY because of the dangerous possible outcomes. This guy covers everyone in the room the second they come in the door. The other guy walks in and smashes a computer screen. It's a show of force. A display of violence to illustrate that "we're serious" and "don't mess with us".

A bank robber may seem calm, and might appear to just be intent on getting the money and going, but if gives the count to 5 statement after you've passed up your opportunity, and now your covered with the his gun then you might not have a chance to pull your gun and fire.

Again, not trying to come off like a jerk and pick a fight. I just disagree.

 

[jake2far]

You know we really shouldn't play cop or Batman in most situations. The only people with a license to murder is cops.

If you or someone else's life is in jeopardy - if a reasonable person would believe that - then of course, draw/fire.

A calm bank robber using a gun for instance. I would not even think of stepping up and shooting in most cases. If the robber said 'I am going to count to five and then blow your brains out' - then yes.

Be careful out there. Don't just immediately go to war with someone carrying a gun or robbing a place unless you really believe you/others are in danger. Better to let the robber take the loot and leave.

How would you like to shoot a robber and then have the witnesses all say they didn't think he'd shoot, seemed like just a guy down on his luck, etc?

I know that may not be 'heroic' but it may keep you out of trouble.

That said - I believe wholehearted that this shooting was justified just because of the way the robbery went down. Two guys with guns frantically rushing in ..... a reasonable person would assume the chance of them getting shot/killed was high.

You really need to think about this. Someone with guns points them at people and demands money. What do you think the guns were for? Pointing a gun at someone in fact is a threat, telling people after the fact or someone saying I don't believe they ment it or they are down on their luck is beyond the pale, really? The gun pointed at you is saying do what I say or I am going to shoot you, what else is it saying? If someone points a gun at you and demands something perhaps you should reason it out, think to yourself, hmmm maybe this person is just doing this because he really needs help, you go ahead and play that game, me, if someone points a gun at me I am going to assume they mean to harm me, after all he is using deadly force to try and make me do what he wants.
I can't believe you actually wrote this, it is nuts. Shoot the Bastards, perhaps if they are dead they will never do it again, next time it might be you or your kids these crooks attack.
Oh yes, Batman doesn't use guns remember? Cops try and arrest the bad guys, this guy did neither. Perhaps your fantasy world should get an adjustment, if you can't see how off your analogy is save the rest of us your insane reality.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

...

A calm bank robber using a gun for instance. I would not even think of stepping up and shooting in most cases. If the robber said 'I am going to count to five and then blow your brains out' - then yes.

Be careful out there. Don't just immediately go to war with someone carrying a gun or robbing a place unless you really believe you/others are in danger. Better to let the robber take the loot and leave...

While I generally accept your premise, there are always "those" cases which prove the rule to be false...Max Jensen was as helpful as helpful could be and didn't argue at all...and Gary Gilmore still shot him. Same with Ben Bushnell, followed instructions from a calm robber, obeyed and died.

When someone has a gun and uses it in a robbery, regardless of how they "act" or what they say, they are, by showing (or implying they have) a weapon they are threatening to use it if they don't get their way. They are threatening deadly force. They should be met with the same...

 

[coop44]

"Think", "I didn't think...", are you kidding me? I have a hard enough time figuring out MY motives for doing things. How the hell am I supposed to know what's going on in someone else's head? Psychics don't exist, get practical. A pointed gun is a threat to me and all those around me, shoot the bastard without a word or warning.

Don't bubblegum with an old man, he'll kill you.

 

[netcarrier]

Hi All,
Sound like we need to think about a few things here. One, the other people in the Cafe and accross the street. Two, What if the bad guys hit someone in the cafe, What about your back stop. And three will I miss the bad guys.

Also that there is a felony going down. So you have the right to step in because of that. But what if you hit someone other then the bad guys? Can you say Law Suit, As a Police Officer, the City has insurance on you. Do you carry 5 million insurance on yourself?

Also just because they bad guys were doing wrong does not mean they can not sue you, because they can.

Also you will have to go to court. Interview, maybe a grand jury etc.......... The List go on.

From my point of view I would have maybe stepped in and done the same thing as Williams but again thinking of all the things stated above. There is alot to think about, maybe we all can take the time now and think about them.

Tony Portland, Oregon Area

 

[greydog111]

You know we really shouldn't play cop or Batman in most situations. The only people with a license to murder is cops.

If you or someone else's life is in jeopardy - if a reasonable person would believe that - then of course, draw/fire.

A calm bank robber using a gun for instance. I would not even think of stepping up and shooting in most cases. If the robber said 'I am going to count to five and then blow your brains out' - then yes.

Be careful out there. Don't just immediately go to war with someone carrying a gun or robbing a place unless you really believe you/others are in danger. Better to let the robber take the loot and leave.

How would you like to shoot a robber and then have the witnesses all say they didn't think he'd shoot, seemed like just a guy down on his luck, etc?

I know that may not be 'heroic' but it may keep you out of trouble.

That said - I believe wholehearted that this shooting was justified just because of the way the robbery went down. Two guys with guns frantically rushing in ..... a reasonable person would assume the chance of them getting shot/killed was high.

Burt. It's just this kind of attitude that allows evil to prevail. A calm bank robber??? Are you serious? Look at violent crime stats. Most armed robberies now have shootings envolved because the criminals are not afraid of retribution. If I have a clear field of fire, I'm going to shoot. Are you willing to wait for the robber to suddenly decide to use you for a target because his meth addled mind tells him to? The police are nearly always late arriving on a crime scene. They are over worked, over regulated, and over sued. Read the book, More guns, less crime.

 

[LiveYourLifeFully]

*My only concern is the man/woman who was behind the robber that Williams was firing at.

Btw, that whole scenario went down in 12 seconds.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Use a sufficient caliber and they may never do it again.. as I have belabored here repeatedly .380 is a backup caliber. And he better get some training cause it might be fun to shoot them in the buttocks but it's WAY bad tactics

I was just reading a Edgar Rice Burroughs tale about a guy who thought a 32 automatic could stop an African lion and some CCW people are not much wiser

 

[fyrediver]

I just posted this on the Legal forum but will ask the same question here: Why, with all the talk of reducing gun violence, were the two perps allowed to immediately post bail and be released back into the public? It just baffles my mind!

 

[netcarrier]

Hi Fyrediver,
Well that the system, they have the right to bail out of jail. Everybody has the right to put up bail asfor were they got the money good Question. If they use a bail bondmen they have to come up with about 10% of total.
Tony Portland, Oregon Area

 

[DoubleTapDrew]

Use a sufficient caliber and they may never do it again.. as I have belabored here repeatedly .380 is a backup caliber. And he better get some training cause it might be fun to shoot them in the buttocks but it's WAY bad tactics

I was just reading a Edgar Rice Burroughs tale about a guy who thought a 32 automatic could stop an African lion and some CCW people are not much wiser

I agree, but he was wearing shorts and a tucked-in shirt. Kinda hard to hide a "real" gun in that attire every day.

 

[beavertonbuck]

Hi All,
Sound like we need to think about a few things here. One, the other people in the Cafe and accross the street. Two, What if the bad guys hit someone in the cafe, What about your back stop. And three will I miss the bad guys.

Also that there is a felony going down. So you have the right to step in because of that. But what if you hit someone other then the bad guys? Can you say Law Suit, As a Police Officer, the City has insurance on you. Do you carry 5 million insurance on yourself?

Also just because they bad guys were doing wrong does not mean they can not sue you, because they can.

Also you will have to go to court. Interview, maybe a grand jury etc.......... The List go on.

From my point of view I would have maybe stepped in and done the same thing as Williams but again thinking of all the things stated above. There is alot to think about, maybe we all can take the time now and think about them.

Tony Portland, Oregon Area

Why we thinking about this what if robbery wasn't on their mind. What if someone was looking for a estranged girlfriend or an enemy? What if they just wanted to get kill people?

While your questions regarding the backstop and other people in the building or valid it doesn't change the fact that they were committing a violent felony and the man had a right to defend himself. I want to pose a scenario that I have actually thought about and get your response. What if I was in downtown Portland at the Saturday Market and something ensued where I was faced with an armed person (knife or gun) coming toward my family and me. Obviously I have a bunch of people around so the backstop issue is huge; however, my families safety is not negotiable to me. In that case I would try move to a position where I there was the least likely chance of hitting someone (I am thinking right now of trying to shoot facing the river) and would try to wait for the other person to close the gap before shooting. This is not a perfect solution that could be a disastrous outcome but I would be willing to accept that risk.

I don't believe anyone should ask rashly but I refuse to say that people shouldn't defend themselves. I think that this mentality has become pervasive in our society that we should just be complaint with bad guys and everything will be okay. If more of this stuff happened I gurantee that criminals would start thinking twice about their actions.

Don't think I don't take your questions seriously though. I was on a forum where a member was describing his encounter with two robbers at his bar. The guy had shot one of the robbers and went to shoot the second robber when his best friend went to tackle the guy. The friend got shot in the back of the head and died. He was obviously really upset about the issue and spent about 2 years waiting to see if charges were going to be filed, they weren't, and waiting on his insurance company to settle with his friend's family.

 

[Dave Workman]

The mouse(gun) that roared

When 71-year-old Samuel Williams, one of several patrons at an internet café in Ocala, Fla., was confronted by armed robbers, he did something that has made him famous across cyberspace in the past few days.

<broken link removed>

 

[Blitzkrieg]

I agree, but he was wearing shorts and a tucked-in shirt. Kinda hard to hide a "real" gun in that attire every day.

When so attired I carry a 16 shot Browning Hi Power Detective model 9MM packed with the latest ammo + one reload. I also would not warn violent felons, their introduction to my reaction would be head shots

BTW it's even easier wearing a Hawaiian shirt