Effect of 1639 on existing owners?

[Jonnyuma]

Indeed.

What a dam mess.
At some point there will no doubt be a fee structure put into place. Antis think that a strong belief in the 2A means that you should be willing to jump through any hoop, pay any fee, endure any hardship (infringement) that they care to heap on us... and we should smile about it and thank them for not imposing an outright ban.

 

[Sporting Systems]

What a dam mess.
At some point there will no doubt be a fee structure put into place. Antis think that a strong belief in the 2A means that you should be willing to jump through any hoop, pay any fee, endure any hardship (infringement) that they care to heap on us... and we should smile about it and thank them for not imposing an outright ban.

The fee structure was included in measures 1639. It starts off at $25 per purchase, and then will be adjusted by the legislature to cover the true cost of compliance. That means as soon as they're able to quantify the actual costs. 1639 allows them to raise the price to and unsustainable Level.

 

[11Charlie]

1639 allows them to raise the price to and unsustainable Level.

Which will make guns more expensive than they are worth in a lot of cases and they end up getting what they want because people will quit purchasing.

 

[WALawyer]

The fee structure was included in measures 1639. It starts off at $25 per purchase, and then will be adjusted by the legislature to cover the true cost of compliance. That means as soon as they're able to quantify the actual costs. 1639 allows them to raise the price to and unsustainable Level.

This is not quite accurate. It starts off as up to $25 and then gets adjusted according to the consumer price index. It doesn't give the legislature the ability to raise the price to whatever it wants (although I acknowledge that the law can obviously be changed by the legislature).

 

[Sporting Systems]

This is not quite accurate. It starts off as up to $25 and then gets adjusted according to the consumer price index. It doesn't give the legislature the ability to raise the price to whatever it wants (although I acknowledge that the law can obviously be changed by the legislature).

Please reread it. It talks about the CPI and then below it says adjusted as needed to cover the cost of compliance, which takes it outside of the CPI rate change.

Furthermore, the legislature can't touch the law for 3 years after it goes into affect.

 

[cascadian]

Indeed. The agencies across the state are not set up for this, no budget, no personnel, no system for the massive influx of data that's is going to be processed by each agency. All NICS checks for handguns with or without cpl, all checks for semi auto rifles. The annual checks on everyone who's ever purchased. And then, the false denials on those annual check ups. Mark my words, The state legislature is going to figure out at 1639 is going to cost them in excess of $150 million a year across the state.

One of the sub mechanisms that the drafters sought really looks like creating an system that A) could not handle the mandates set forth in the initiative, B) not to provide funding for enacting and supporting this system, and C) generally create a system that by cost, inefficiency, inability to adopt would by default lead to no approvals of purchases; a ban on purchases.

By making it far more expensive to comply with the new laws than to not do them at all (and have legal cover by indemnity in the initiative), creates the incentive to not do the paperwork.

Now, our good public servants are not likely to make a de facto ban outside of perhaps Seattle.

Still. This lays the groundwork, if left standing, to do more monkeywrenching later.

 

[WALawyer]

Please reread it. It talks about the CPI and then below it says adjusted as needed to cover the cost of compliance, which takes it outside of the CPI rate change.

Furthermore, the legislature can't touch the law for 3 years after it goes into affect.

Am I blind? I don't see anything like that.

(7)(a) To help offset the administrative costs of implementing this section as it relates to new requirements for semiautomatic assault rifles, the department of licensing may require the dealer to charge each semiautomatic assault rifle purchaser or transferee a fee not to exceed twenty-five dollars, except that the fee may be adjusted at the beginning of each biennium to levels not to exceed the percentage increase in the 9 consumer price index for all urban consumers, CPI-W, or a successor index, for the previous biennium as calculated by the United States department of labor. (b) The fee under (a) of this subsection shall be no more than is necessary to fund the following: (i) The state for the cost of meeting its obligations under this section; (ii) The health care authority, mental health institutions, and other health care facilities for state-mandated costs resulting from the reporting requirements imposed by RCW 9.41.097(1); and (iii) Local law enforcement agencies for state-mandated local costs resulting from the requirements set forth under RCW 9.41.090 and this section.

 

[Sporting Systems]

Am I blind? I don't see anything like that.

From (b) on allows the fee structure to cover the actual cost of the state, health care authority and law enforcement agencies. I'll be at the hearing on Thursday, and I've spoken with Senator Wilson about this numerous times. She confirmed they could change the fee to cover the actual costs, because the law specifically says then can. And they will. Not her, but the state Democratic Party will.

 

[Koda]

Handgun purchases after 7/1/19 will trigger an annual background check, yes. This check will literally happen in the background and you'll never know it happened. There is no training requirement for handgun purchases, only ARs.

Ive never heard of an annual background check....

How long does it last? For literally every gun puchaser... Do they check their backgrounds for new offenses every year now for life? What happens if they find something do they come and confiscate the gun they bought?

 

[Vendor Hidden]

Yep. Gonna buy all the guns I'll ever want before July 1, 2019. Even if I have to take out a loan. If 1639 stands, purchasing after that point is going to be a nightmare, guaranteed.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

Also, thanks to @Sporting Systems for taking the time to pass on what you know. I live in Spokane, but if I ever find myself in Vancouver, I'll stop by.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

I'm also grateful to @WALawyer for his expertise. We're gonna need a lot of help getting through this 1639 sh1tshow.

 

[Alexx1401]

The biggest challenge is not to laugh when they get that shocked look on their face that says, "Oh my God! He's really pulling me out of the car by my hair!"

Several times when I have been able to see this first hand it was all I could do not to start laughing out loud. Some of these grown adults who were never told no as a kid. One years back cuffed guy spit in LEO's face. LEO slammed his face on trunk. Sgt. shows up. Asks me and my partner what we saw. We both said we had backs turned but caught a look as we heard something. Looked like guy in cuffs tried to head but Cop who had to control him. Sgt. hesitated just second, asked if we would be willing to swear to that. Both of us said of course, no problem. Sgt. had a little side chat with LEO, and off they all went.

 

[Sporting Systems]

Ive never heard of an annual background check....

How long does it last? For literally every gun puchaser... Do they check their backgrounds for new offenses every year now for life? What happens if they find something do they come and confiscate the gun they bought?

Yup, we're the first. Annual check, or more frequent. For life. No way to get off the list, and yes...local law enforcement will be notified and they'll be knocking on doors to collect the guns.

We produced this video as a helpful primer on 1639 and how it impacts people.

 

[ACO]

I see the video says smooth bore shotguns are ok, but what about semiautos like saigas or lynx12s?

 

[Sporting Systems]

I see the video says smooth bore shotguns are ok, but what about semiautos like saigas or lynx12s?

If they have a rifled barrel, they will fall under 1639 as an assault weapon.

 

[Alexx1401]

I'm also grateful to @WALawyer for his expertise. We're gonna need a lot of help getting through this 1639 sh1tshow.

YES, I appreciate the time he spends here on these questions a LOT!!! Enough so I just gifted him a Membership here. Figure he deserved it for the time he puts in and the money certainly goes to a great place!

 

[NW Backpacker]

Does this open up the state in other areas of your life that would normally require a search warrant?

Looks like it does:
1) Annual background check forever (silent, you won't even know it happened)
2) Lifetime waiver of privacy on medical records - are they going to post them on the internet?

Which is worse - I1639 or IP43 + IP44?

Looks like Nevada has gone blue, Arizona may go blue, I think Montana is blue, Idaho CC permit requirements are fairly stiff, Colorado is blue. Cruz barely won in Texas. TEXAS! Florida is worse than a banana republic. Running out of options. We're losing big league.

 

[WALawyer]

From (b) on allows the fee structure to cover the actual cost of the state, health care authority and law enforcement agencies. I'll be at the hearing on Thursday, and I've spoken with Senator Wilson about this numerous times. She confirmed they could change the fee to cover the actual costs, because the law specifically says then can. And they will. Not her, but the state Democratic Party will.

We'll have to agree to disagree. (b) says nothing about increasing the fee. It simply says the fee cannot be more than what is actually needed. (a) still limits it to $25. (a) acts as a cap on (b), for now.

Ive never heard of an annual background check....

How long does it last? For literally every gun puchaser... Do they check their backgrounds for new offenses every year now for life? What happens if they find something do they come and confiscate the gun they bought?

The way the law is currently written, the background check will be annual for life for all handgun and AR purchased after July 1, 2019. If a disqualifying event occurs, local law enforcement will be notified to take appropriate action. I imagine this would begin with a letter ordering the surrender or transfer of firearms and then it'll escalate from there.

YES, I appreciate the time he spends here on these questions a LOT!!! Enough so I just gifted him a Membership here. Figure he deserved it for the time he puts in and the money certainly goes to a great place!

Thanks.

 

[Sporting Systems]

We'll have to agree to disagree. (b) says nothing about increasing the fee. It simply says the fee cannot be more than what is actually needed. (a) still limits it to $25. (a) acts as a cap on (b), for now.



The way the law is currently written, the background check will be annual for life for all handgun and AR purchased after July 1, 2019. If a disqualifying event occurs, local law enforcement will be notified to take appropriate action. I imagine this would begin with a letter ordering the surrender or transfer of firearms and then it'll escalate from there.



Thanks.

Thursday, I'll be in Olympia at the Senate Law and Justice workgroup with Senator Wilson. Tomorrow, I'm submitting a list of items for Sen Wilson to address in this work session. We'll ask that the comitteee verify their intent to apply and adjust that fee structure.