Edward Alonzo Selden of Whitehall NY....

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by tac, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    3,770
    Likes Received:
    8,712
    A rifle that I claim as having been made by him has been offered for sale in Canada, and I'm trying my darndest to convince the potential buyer that it is not English.

    Selden was born in Montréal Canada amd moved down to NY, where he set up a gun-making business, producing guns of very high quality, including this one - no details of the calibre or bore condition, but it's a lovely thing.....

    percussion_lock_target_rifle.jpg

    Any further information for the gentleman on canadiangunnuts.com would be much appreciated

    tac
     
  2. KKG

    KKG
    Western Washington
    Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,162
    Likes Received:
    3,158
    I will look to see what I have.
     
    tac likes this.
  3. thorborg

    thorborg
    portland oregon
    Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

    Messages:
    1,463
    Likes Received:
    2,997
    KKG and tac like this.
  4. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    3,770
    Likes Received:
    8,712
    Very many thanks.

    tac
     
  5. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
    Everson, Wa.
    Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    7,259
    Likes Received:
    34,535
    lovely rifle...
    Looks to be a New York style rifle of the 1850's-80's era ...Not English.
    The patch box and styling of the rifle butt , are very eastern US...The rifle looks to be a target rifle with the heavy barrel and scope...maybe a platinum / silver screw in the drum?...the ramrod looks to be a replacement...not a deal breaker by any means however... The back action lock and silver? trigger guard are a nice touch...Extreme drop in stock , deep crescent butt plate...
    All of the above scream eastern US rifle to me , not English.

    Most English rifles of that era have a flat "Shotgun" butt , usually far less drop in the stock , a more straight stock profile , different style of muzzle cap etc...
    Of course exceptions can always be found on either Eastern US rifles or English rifles....

    All in all a good looking rifle and it might make a excellent shooter...would love to see more detailed pictures of the rifle...
    Andy
     
    DunRanull, etrain16, GOG and 3 others like this.
  6. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    3,770
    Likes Received:
    8,712
    Well, if you read my posts over on canadiangunnutz.com you will have seen that we have pretty much nailed it, down to the gentleman who made it in Whitehall NY.

    Seems there are no more accoutrements for it, and tight now we don't even know the state of the bore, let alone the calibre.

    As I noted in my very first post over there, there is no way on earth that this could have been an English gun - neither the style nor the raison d'etre are appropriate to English shooting.

    tac
     
    GOG, Gaucho Gringo, KKG and 1 other person like this.
  7. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    3,770
    Likes Received:
    8,712
    OK - update and finis.

    I got the owner of this rifle to make contact with Joe over at the Gun Works in Springfield OR, and I wasn't too amazed to get this note this morning -

    'Good day Terry. I trust you and yours had a wonderful Christmas? We had, as usual, too much food thanks to my good wife, so we'll be chowing down on Ukrainian/Polish goodies well into the new year. I had a very good chat with Joe. What a marvelous gentleman and most informative. From the pics I sent, he was able to determine exactly what I have. It's a target rifle made in the 1860's for "Picket" matches which was a shooting discipline of the era. Not to get too windy, but there was good news and bad news. The good news? I have a wonderful rifle and a prime example of the American gunsmith's art in excellent condition. The bad news? These rifles have a very small niche market and demand for them has dropped a lot over the years.'

    No real amazes, there. If anybody could give us an answer it would be Joe.

    Next.

    tac
     
  8. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
    Everson, Wa.
    Moderator Staff Member Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    7,259
    Likes Received:
    34,535
    "Picket Rifles" are pretty neat...Ned Roberts really liked 'em and talked about then in his book:
    The Muzzleloading Caplock Rifle.
    Ned Roberts was also the "father" of the .257 Roberts cartridge...

    These rifles are also mentioned in The Muzzleoading Rifle Then and Now , by Walter Cline....Cline was one of the founding members of the National Muzzleloading Rifle Association.

    Picket Rifles were made with a fast twist and were meant to use a concial or a bullet.
    Picket rifle matches were very formal and had a tight sight of rules regarding the rifles and how they were to be shot.
    Andy
     
    KKG and etrain16 like this.
  9. tac

    tac
    UK, Oregon and Ontario.
    Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    3,770
    Likes Received:
    8,712
    Ahah! The plick thottens!!!

    From David Minshall over on another forum - 'Sent to me by a friend; the following is excerpted, and paraphrased from: “The New York State Firearms Trade”, by H.J. Swinney, compiled by Tom Rowe:

    Alonzo Selden, is listed in US Census of 1870 as Selden, Alonzo, age 75, occupation gunsmith, and as being born in Vermont. It is believed he also worked as a gunsmith in Dorset Vermont from 1845-1847. Alonzo Selden relocated to Whitehall, NY and is shown as being a gunsmith there from 1849 to 1871. He is believed to have died around 1876.

    I note the barrel is engraved A. Selden as per above information.

    Edward Alonzo Selden identifed in the other cited forum does not appear to be the same person.


    Not wishing to rain on anybody's parade, but what are the chances of there being TWO Alonzo Seldens in the same burg, doing the same things in the same timescale who are the same age?

    An interesting little conundrum for somebody. I think I'll let my dear Friend Helen, a part-time genealogist for the LDS, loose on it and see what, if anything, transpires.

    I'll keep you posted.

    Best for 2018!

    tac
     
    KKG and AndyinEverson like this.
  10. Stomper

    Stomper
    SHUT YOUR FACE!!
    SHUT YOUR FACE!! Gold Supporter

    Messages:
    19,745
    Likes Received:
    49,586
    It’s missing the shoulder thing that pops up....
     

Share This Page