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E-Mail PROVES DOJ KNEW EVERYTHING ABOUT FAST AND FURIOUS!

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by kenno, Sep 7, 2011.

  1. kenno

    kenno eastern WA Active Member

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    →ATF Death Watch 74: The Smoking Gun
    Posted on September 7, 2011 by Brad Kozak


    You gotta love a good paper trail. And you can forget all that “conquer the Minotaur crap” you learned in high school, using the ball o’ twine to mark the way out of the maze. Today’s smart shoppers use an email trail to navigate the treacherous waters of an exposé. And this particular email trail is a humdinger.


    Let’s take a little trip down memory lane, and take a look at this little love note, sent from the Phoenix office of the ATF. You know. The one that just saw it’s personel laterally-arabesqued, as they gamely try to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. Yeah. THAT one. In the same city as the DoJ office that just got their cases reassigned to another division, so all that hard work won’t go up in smoke, after the DoJ’s Phoenix boys proved to be part of the problem, instead of part of the solution. Oh, and if you can’t read it, be sure and click on it to zoom it up nice and large.



    For those of you whose computers are graphically-impaired, here are the juicy bits (emphasis mine):

    We are charging Avila with a standalone June 2010 firearms purchase where he used a bad (old) address on the 4473. (924(a)(1)(A) – False records required to kept by dealer.) This way we do not divulge our current case (Fast & Furious) or the Border Patrol shooting case.

    My, what big lies you tell, Grandmother! All the better to deceive you with, my dear.

    So let’s see. The DoJ knew nothing of the operations of the ATF on Fast n’ Furious, and the ATF had no idea that the guns they let out of the country for a bit of a walkabout ended up with the thugs that gunned down Brian Terry. Yet here’s proof positive they knew, right up front and early. And shared that data with everybody else on the team.

    RUH-rho, Rhorge!

    That’s the loverly thing about paper trails. (Even ePaper trails.) It’s so easy to trip up somebody with a proclivity for mendacity. So, another day, another chink in the armor, fly in the ointment, piss in the vinegar. Yep. It’s getting so thick over there ’round Phoenix way, they’re gonna have to start some initiative to feed the area homeless, with all those geese that are gettin’ cooked. What do you think…tastes like chicken?
     
  2. VW_Factor

    VW_Factor Woodburn Oregon Active Member

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    Link?
     
  3. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman Western Washington Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  4. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    The idea that "no one knew" has always been ludicrous. This was an incredibly bad judgement call from start to finish. But that's all it was. LE does this kind of thing all the time (letting crimes go in anticipation of snaring bigger fish/larger crimes). People should lose their jobs over this because at the same time the Administration was trying to blame American gun shops for all the violence in Mexico they let a couple of thousand guns they KNEW were going to the cartels walk. It's both rank hypocrisy and bad judgement.

    The real problem lies in the administration trying to cover it up. Fast and Furious of itself shouldn't result in anything but some people losing their jobs. The coverup could wind up with some people going to jail for perjury/obstruction of justice.
     
  5. kenno

    kenno eastern WA Active Member

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    You must be joking, the intent was to subvert the US Constitution to the detriment of the American People. As always with the ATF, an innocent person(s) was murdered. That, my ATF defender, is commonly called TREASON
    Concealment of a crime shows fore knowladge that the PLAN violated the US Constitution and this OPERATION has concealed so many crimes that it is obviously an ON GOING CRIMINAL ENTERPRISE
     
  6. nforest

    nforest Eugene, OR & Costa Rica Active Member

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    nforest: puts on tinfoil hat:paranoid:
     
  7. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    I still remember back in the 70's...wasn't it Sam Nunn who said "What did the President know and when did he know it?" It wasn't that Nixon was involved in Watergate, it was that he covered it up. Did Washington learn NOTHING from that experience???? (That was a rhetorical question!)

    edited to add - Or was it Rayburn? Been so long ago know...
     
  8. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    How is this a "tinfoil hat conspiracy"? The current administration has been trying for the past few years to point Mexican violence on "lax US gun laws". The ATF lets THOUSANDS of guns "walk" to Mexico. Suddenly when all of this comes to light, with a BP agent killed, everyone higher than the ATF agents directly involved claim ignorance, the entire thing gets thrown under a rug and denied, top leaders get "shuffled around" to save face and all gun shops residing in Southern boarder states get an ATF mandate to report two or more "assault rifle" purchases.

    If you don't think that this is the most corrupt, back dealing, underhanded way to force gun restrictions/registration on LAW ABIDING GUN OWNERS then I must have to wonder really how good that cool aid must taste.
     
  9. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    So, do we demand eric holder's resignation for his complicity?
    Or, do we demand it because this crapola went on right under his nose and he didn't know?


    Either way, he's got to go.
     
  10. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    This is the largest pile of horsepucky I've read on the intarwebs all day. -Which is saying a lot.

    Subvert the constitution? Which part? Since what the ATF does and how guns are regulated by the federal government is entirely constitutional as far as the Supreme Court has ruled, how is it exactly that they tried to subvert the constitution?

    Pull your head out. You're half-arsed opinion of what the constitution means is worth diddly. They were trying to catch some gun-runners. They used a VERY commonly employed investigative technique to do it. The problem was that they let too many guns walk that they knew or should have known in advance they couldn't possibly track.

    That's all anyone has really accused them of. Incompetence that wound up with a gun from the investigation being used to kill a BP agent. If you think that the only reason that BP agent was killed was because of the guns in fast and furious, you need to stop posting here and join the Brady Bunch. Because that's what they would say. (If only illegal guns hadn't walked form a gun store in the U.S. criminals NEVER would have obtained them another way!)

    Treason? REALLY mister constitution? Perhaps you can explain how Fast and Furious "...levying War against [the United States] or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.

    I find it ironic how many people who wrap themselves up in the constitution are so often utterly ignorant of what it says, what it's been ruled to mean, etc. etc.

    -And no one was apologizing for the ATF. I certainly wasn't. They aren't accused of committing a crime except possibly in a coverup. The initial acts were incompetence, nothing more. -Not that this is new for the agency whose name should be the title of my favorite convenience store.
     
  11. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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  12. svxr8dr

    svxr8dr Vancouver, WA OathKeeper #004404

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    I'm a fan of horsepucky myself. Therefore, please elaborate on what exactly was the plan to track the guns in this "VERY commonly employed investigative technique"? Maybe a link or two to a .pdf describing the "plan".
     
  13. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    It's a pretty thin lead. More like accusations without any proof. They call for Obama to be impeached. Over what precisely? In what way would having someone on the NSC getting memos from ATF on GunRunner be "high crimes or misdemeanors" on the part of the President? The hyperbole on that last part of the editorial screams BS to me.
     
  14. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    Who needs a link? Are you actually unfamiliar with the practice of allowing crimes to be committed (and documented for later prosecution) as part of an investigation to catch bigger fish or more serious offenses? Seriously this is news to you?

    I've said repeatedly that the whole thing was gross incompetence on ATFs part. For exactly the reason you state. there was no way in **** they could really expect to track all those guns. And I'm sure the ATF weenies thought up this brilliant idea to appease Holder's vendetta against American gun owners. -But nothing there constitutes a crime. Crappy police work with a stinkin political axe to grind (enough that Holder should be fired) but not a crime.
     
  15. svxr8dr

    svxr8dr Vancouver, WA OathKeeper #004404

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  16. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    Which is exactly in line with every statement I've made on this thread. Read the posts.

     
  17. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I never trust "breaking news" even from major news sources until the dust settles. However, it is true that the Los Angeles Times carried the story albeit not so sensationalized.

    White House received emails about Fast and Furious gun operation - latimes.com
     
  18. svxr8dr

    svxr8dr Vancouver, WA OathKeeper #004404

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    I have read your posts and still disagree with you that letting 2000 guns intentionally walk across an international border with no plan or mechanism to recover them....ever....is NOT a common investigative technique by any law enforcement agency on planet Earth.
     
  19. iusmc2002

    iusmc2002 Colville, WA Active Member

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    He's right. LEO's do allow small crimes to happen to catch bigger criminals. This however, ISN'T, a small crime. His mating these two types of ops as being the same is ludicris. They are so far from each other in proportion, there is no scale possible to have them both on it
     
  20. svxr8dr

    svxr8dr Vancouver, WA OathKeeper #004404

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    I agree that whether it be drugs, money or whatever, you may let something walk in order to get a bigger fish, but in those cases there is a mechanism to retreive said items. This operation was put in place without concern or regard to where those weapons would go and what damage the cartels would do with them. This is not anything close to a tried an true investigative technique.