Duvall, WA - Delivery Driver pulls a gun. Assessment by a local 2A-friendly lawyer

[ATCclears]

I don't know the whole story and I don't know who was right/wrong. I do find the lawyer's assessment interesting. You may watch the entire video or jump to 5min into video.

Side note. This WA State lawyer is putting out some good content on his YouTube channel.

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[AlwaysOnTheGo]

Side note. This WA State lawyer is putting out some good content on his YouTube channel.

Agreed. I've recently subscribed to his channel.

The way he breaks down the videos from a legal perspective and compares against RCWs is really informative.

 

[revjen45]

Mr. Hero Delivery Driver (HDD) is real lucky that Ron wasn't packing. If I were in Ron's shoes I would have regarded HDD's actions as indication of his intent to shoot (at) me and responded accordingly.* At the distance involved I am probably more likely to score on my first shot that he is, and since he came out of nowhere brandishing a firearm in a particularly threatening manner it would be reasonable for me to respond with lethal force.
My vote is for #4 unless something more serious is an option. HDD is a moron who shouldn't be carrying a gun in publick.

*Standard disclaimer about asking for a friend, kayak capsized, disparity of force, etc.

 

[Lilhigbee]

Why not charge him under all three laws, plus reckless endangerment of the family and kidnapping/unlawful detainment?? He's guilty of all of those, probably more. Five or six years in the pokey ought to be about right.

 

[Nosferatu]

Let me guess, Mr. HDD just bought the gun within the last 2 years?

I think this is the behavior we're going to see for a while from these "new gun owners" for the next few years, especially those from King County.

 

[RVTECH]

I think this is the behavior we're going to see for a while from these "new gun owners" for the next few years,

Yep, it's just so inspiring to have all these 'new gun owners' on 'our side' now just really helping the pro gun efforts.....

Like they say a whole bunch of 'atta boys' gets wiped out by one 'Aw chit'.

 

[GWS]

HDD is an idiot
Remove his CHL immediately' Have him picking up trash along the roadside for a year or so,

 

[titsonritz]

HDD is an idiot
Remove his CHL immediately' Have him picking up trash along the roadside for a year or so,

Cane him.

 

[gmerkt]

In Wash., you don't have to demonstrate any knowledge of guns or the laws that regulate their use to buy one. Nor do you have to do the same to obtain a CPL. I imagine some day the state legislature will figure this out as has happened in some other states. The issue here is the regulation of hardware vs. behavior. There is a lot of responsibility that is conveyed along with ownership of a gun. The average Joe is often ignorant of some of these responsibilities contained in the "fine print."

There is Wash. Dept. of Fish And Wildlife pamphlet, entitled "Firearms Safety, Suicide Awareness, The Law, and You." It has the "fine print" in it, some gun dealers give it out with a firearms purchase, but it's anybody's guess how many new gun owners read it.

 

[arrowshooter]

Two things that I have zero tolerance for are bullys and thieves, but Karens with guns put in an application to be added to my list awhile ago. I may have to consider them for my list.

 

[po18guy]

From the (ex) badge side: Bear in mind that in the city I worked in, the driver would have a suspended license, the pedestrian would have arrest warrants and the delivery guy would have a stolen gun.

All three were wrong. "Ron" may not be but sounds like an entitled liberal - who owns the cross walk and does not need to look before leaping. "Karen" sounds like an entitled driver who has the right not to be obstructed by pedestrians. She was doing everything but paying attention as her two-ton weapon careened through the atmosphere. She should have paid attention, but NOOOOO!

Ron's F-bombs and all manner of crude discourse may be very common today, but reveal no mercy toward someone who was being negligent, but not necessarily criminal. His (understandable) overreaction created fear in the driver (and concern in the hero) and she might well have driven over him to get away from perceived danger. Screaming profanities, coupled with a present ability to carry out an assault "may" be construed as provoking assault or disorderly conduct - both misdemeanors.He should have watched for traffic (Kindergartners know this) and waited. But NOOOOO!

Superhero might have watched, waited and called 911. But NOOOOO! Gun and profanities replace his super-hero cape.

So: Negligent driving. Disorderly conduct. Display of a weapon/felonious assault. The three stooges!

 

[BAJ475]

Why not charge him under all three laws, plus reckless endangerment of the family and kidnapping/unlawful detainment?? He's guilty of all of those, probably more. Five or six years in the pokey ought to be about right.

Other than the amount of time in the pokey, I agree. But, isn't that a bit much for being a mere stupid idiot who did not actually harm anyone?

 

[RVTECH]

But, isn't that a bit much for being a mere stupid idiot who did not actually harm anyone?

This I can agree with - but the penalty has to be something really 'memorable' - and somehow leave the guilty person with a deeply rooted sense of what he/she did was wrong and will never do it again!

 

[Daddy0]

"Thirty round mag of water bottles"

I agree, throw the book at Mr.HDD!

 

[ma96782]

Never, a finger on the trigger and never pointing in the direction of another person.

Sorry, but I don't buy it as, "RULES never to be broken".

++++++++
++++++++

Not speaking about this particular incident.

So consider.........

Yeah, say that you were alerted at 0330 hours to "activity" on your driveway. So say that you've decided to go outside to investigate (while armed of course). You discover a person trying to steal your catalytic converter from underneath your car while on your property. You've interrupted his foraging and so you verbally confront him. He emerges from beneath your vehicle with a knife (wrench or whatever else = deadly weapon) in hand.

So......
Just keep it holstered cause you're "Quick Draw Mc Graw" and you could even shoot that knife out of his hand. Right, IPSC practice and target shooting pays off.

But then, the perp is thinking.....
He can't/he won't pull a gun on me. It's only a property crime. I'll disarm him with my superior Kung Fu movements.

So but, the biggest question is?

If you DID draw your weapon. Do you want to "cover your target" and do you want your finger on the trigger or not? Is a finger-on trigger only allowed within the 21 feet or not? Where is your firearm pointed? Depending on his weapon....do I have to wait, until he is within 21 feet to even point?

Yup.....
You were lucky that he didn't emerge with a gun in hand. But forget about that for now.

Are you suddenly questioning yourself or having an epiphany?

"Is it really better to be judged by twelve than carried by six?"

He says, "You can't point that at me! I'm gonna shove that gun up your ______."

Your instructions are, "Drop your weapon, drop it!"

Hummm.......maybe you should have just stayed inside. Yup.....letting the criminals steal whatever. Rrrrrrright.....The Dems rule this city.



Aloha, Mark

 

[po18guy]

Knew a guy (dirtbag perp) in the city I worked in. He was at a tavern when a drunk dude was ejected and went to his car and got a gun. Before he could go back in, dirtbag perp gets on his face, confronts him and says, "If you pull a gun, you'd better use it!" Dude backed down and left.

Sometimes angels arrive looking like convicted felons.

 

[RVTECH]

Sorry, but I don't buy it as "RULES" (never to be "broken").

'Rules' are guidelines and not necessarily directives and will of course be predicated on the situation.

Yeah, say that you were alerted at 0330 hours to "activity" on your driveway. So, you went outside to investigate (while armed of course). You discover a person trying to steal your catalytic converter from underneath your car while on your property.

In this case (and because of my location) I would be cocked, locked and depending on the situation would either be pointing, or in a 'ready' position - again depending on the situation. HOWEVER HDD was on the street, during the day, and pulled on some unarmed guy over a crosswalk issue?

Kinda apples and oranges.

 

[ma96782]

I wasn't commenting on the original scenario. My comment was more about the RULES.

+++++++++
+++++++++

I sort of see it as a situation where..........


Lawyers just seem to love that we (regular folks) have to abide by RULES. And YES....to a degree we do.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Alexx1401]

I don't know the whole story and I don't know who was right/wrong. I do find the lawyer's assessment interesting. You may watch the entire video or jump to 5min into video.

Side note. This WA State lawyer is putting out some good content on his YouTube channel.

Very interesting little talk. Don't think I had ever heard of the lawyer but I will be checking him out. I have to HOPE the idiot with the gun no longer has a CPL any longer.

 

[ATCclears]

A follow-up video.

Washington Gun Law President, William Kirk, discusses some of the comments to our most recent video involving a delivery driver in Duvall, WA who felt the need to pull a gun on an unarmed man having a verbal altercation with a passing motorist. After reading through the mountains of good comments, we take a look at a couple of questions and a couple of observations that sheds even more light on how dangerous situation can turn deadly in just seconds. Arm yourself with education today and learn from someone else's mistake.