Dual fuel generators

[No_Regerts]

Make sure you have a circuit dedicated to the shop so you can reload while everyone else huddles around a candle.

I did!

 

[Kruel J]

I did!

How did I know?

 

[No_Regerts]

Thank you, for your consideration of your neighbor(s) hearing.

My neighbor recently got a new M/C to disturb the peace with.

Aloha, Mark

A: Its really not that loud. About like a lawnmower.

B: Neighbors aren't super close.

C: I'm more concerned with my family than my neighbors. The whole house can run, even the septic.

 

[Kruel J]

A: Its really not that loud. About like a lawnmower.

B: Neighbors aren't super close.

C: I'm more concerned with my family than my neighbors. The whole house can run, even the septic.

22kw should be enough that you don't even notice a difference.

 

[CountryGent]

The one I'm having installed is automatic. It runs itself every so often to make sure all is good. If the power goes out, it comes on. Getting a 22,000 watt unit.

That's what we did some years back and it has been a real blessing. Fires up when it needs to (like the wee hours of the morning today) and turns off once power is restored. It automatically runs itself for a few minutes each Saturday. Noise level is no biggie and maintenance is a piece of cake. With the whole house generator and a good woodstove, the winters are easier then back in the day.

 

[ma96782]

A: Its really not that loud. About like a lawnmower.

B: Neighbors aren't super close.

C: I'm more concerned with my family than my neighbors. The whole house can run, even the septic.

Circumstances are different for everyone.

Though, listening to a lawnmower running (for how many plus hours). I can only ask that you consider your noise level and your neighbors. Think of the hour of the day....and how many hours you intend to be making noise.

Aloha, Mark

PS.......I haven't said anything to my neighbor about his M/C. Because I figure that......after he is finished with revving up and idling the engine......well, he'll be gone soon (hopefully).

 

[slimmer13]

The one I'm having installed is automatic. It runs itself every so often to make sure all is good. If the power goes out, it comes on. Getting a 22,000 watt unit.

Id grab one of those if I had access to gas. I'm in the woods and I don't really want to rent a big propane tank. Then they got you by the balls.

 

[Alexx1401]

My parents have the same generator I ordered and you can't even hear it from inside the house. If we need the generator, its likely not real nice outside. We'll be hanging out inside anyway.

The kind made to run a home have exhaust system like a car. Even the 6K one I have is not annoying loud. I can run it in the garage with the exhaust going outside and watch TV in the attached house. It's not something I would want to use a lot but that's not what it's for. If someone wants real quiet in a portable unit I know RV's have nice ones for this. People can run them and not disturb others. Some must be picturing all of these as being like the ones they see at a construction site that has no power.
As I always say a LOT depends on how often the thing is going to be used. If I lived where power outage was common and went on for days? I would have a FAR better unit than I have. The place I live we go some years and never use it. It's just nice to know it's there if we need it. If we buy a home I will seriously look at one like yours that is wired direct to the home. I like "comfort" when I am home and that means having power

 

[Alexx1401]

Id grab one of those if I had access to gas. I'm in the woods and I don't really want to rent a big propane tank. Then they got you by the balls.

How long do you need it to run? How often do you lose power? Mine has a 7HP mill. Last time I had to run it for about 30 hours it was still on the first 5 gal bottle of LP IIRC. If you are out of power more than a few times and or for days at a time? May be worth looking at buying a couple of the larger tanks. The big box stores sell them in a couple larger sizes that you can still just take to the station in a truck or with a trailer. Many places will not fill them if they are carried in the vehicle, like trunk, but even for those who do not have a truck a simple trailer is cheap.

 

[levi333]

I bought the 8500w Firman tri-fuel Costco had on sale this summer for $600. I have 12hrs running it on propane only so far and it's been great. ( and with Costco if it's not great they'll take it back!) Has a 50a/240v plug that I use with an interlock on my panel.
Takes a few tries to fire up but it's electronic start so not much of a hassle. I assume that's just the propane getting where it needs to go.
Have had no issues with the high THD that's been reported. It's loud but I'm in the country.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

IMO not a generator I would trust. Dual fuel is great though but hard to make run really well without some tinkering as its hard to keep it tuned for both fuels. The carb on mine has frozen with extended use. As for power 9000w to run a chest freezer and a refrigerator is way overkill. Unless you plan on loss of power for really extended periods of time just backfeed whatever circuit you need to use. Just make sure to turn off the main panel so if the power company comes to restor your power you dont kill someone.

We have been without power for a week to ten days twice in the last 5 years. We keep two freezers full of meat in addition to our normal refrigerator. Running extension cords and doing electrical work with a flashlight held in my mouth is not my idea of fun at 2 am in December when it is raining ice or snowing sideways. Going without lights for 10 days can get tiresome too.

As far as generating capacity, it's kinda like gun safes or shop buildings. Nobody ever said, "Gee, I wish I had a smaller one."

When it comes to fuel, I hope everyone has learned by now to run nothing but Clear premium gas in their small engines. It can sit in the carb over the winter without any problem, and it will keep in storage for a year or more.

As far as safety, I'm a former power plant electrician. If I'm a utility employee working on a primary circuit the last thing I want is a homeowner backfeeding the line with his portable generator. A good transfer switch that isolates the generator and energized circuits positively from the utility lines is necessary to be safe.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Id grab one of those if I had access to gas. I'm in the woods and I don't really want to rent a big propane tank. Then they got you by the balls.

There's a guy over in Brookings who sells large propane tanks. The only problem then is finding a gas company that will fill a tank they aren't leasing to you.

Homepage | Rebuilt Propane Tanks | BLT Tanks

www.blttanks.com

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Here's my setup for the HF Predator 9000W unit I'm using temporarily. It was $700 at Harbor Freight. I bought it to use for construction in remote sites on the property. Until the weather improves so I can do some trenching for the larger, permanent unit I'll be using the predator.

The temporary hookup for plugging in the generator to the system.

The transfer switch is rated 100A at 240V. It positively isolates the generator from the utility's supply lines. The generator cannot ever be physically connected to the utility lines. Normal utility service is in the lower position. Generator service is in the upper position. The load is on the center poles.

 

[Alexx1401]

Here's my setup for the HF Predator 9000W unit I'm using temporarily. It was $700 at Harbor Freight. I bought it to use for construction in remote sites on the property. Until the weather improves so I can do some trenching for the larger, permanent unit I'll be using the predator.
View attachment 804238
The temporary hookup for plugging in the generator to the system.
View attachment 804239
The transfer switch is rated 100A at 240V. It positively isolates the generator from the utility's supply lines. The generator cannot ever be physically connected to the utility lines. Normal utility service is in the lower position. Generator service is in the upper position. The load is on the center poles.
View attachment 804240

Something like that would be really nice to have. At least that way when the power dies all you have to do is plug in the cord from the Gen and flip the switch. When we lose power here I will normally wait an hour or so since it's a hassle to start running the damn cords. A couple times I would no sooner get the cords all run, fire up the machine and sit down to have the power come back

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Something like that would be really nice to have. At least that way when the power dies all you have to do is plug in the cord from the Gen and flip the switch. When we lose power here I will normally wait an hour or so since it's a hassle to start running the damn cords. A couple times I would no sooner get the cords all run, fire up the machine and sit down to have the power come back

Exactly! The transfer switch is about $400 new. I had one in my recycled equipment stash. The generator receptacle is about $50. A decent 10 AWG cord will run about $100. I already had several of them for my MIG welder.

The 9000W Predator is an electric start model, so it's pretty easy to start the generator, plug in the cord, and flip the transfer switch. Usually, it's best to bring the load on line one circuit breaker at a time. Circuits with large motors on them can draw up to 3 times the normal load when starting up. This would include refrigeration equipment, large fans, compressors, or anything using large electric motors.

 

[No_Regerts]

There's a guy over in Brookings who sells large propane tanks. The only problem then is finding a gas company that will fill a tank they aren't leasing to you.

Homepage | Rebuilt Propane Tanks | BLT Tanks

www.blttanks.com

There are benefits and drawbacks. Renting a 500 gallon tank around here is $90 to $100 a year instead of shelling out $2300 all at once. Rentals cover maintenance and parts. Buying your own tank means you're responsible for it.

Renting means you have to enter into a contract that says you can only buy propane from whoever you rented your tank from. Some make you buy a certain amount a year, or you'll pay for anyway if you don't need that much. Or worse yet, they'll nail you for refills outside of your schedule. You'll pay it because you need it. You also have to have an above-ground tank.

Buying allows you to fill with whoever has the best price. Where I live, there are plenty of companies who are willing to fill any tank they can. Not sure about other areas. I just paid $1100 to fill my tank. Not a small chunk of change for a company to turn away from.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

Exactly! The transfer switch is about $400 new. I had one in my recycled equipment stash. The generator receptacle is about $50. A decent 10 AWG cord will run about $100. I already had several of them for my MIG welder.

The 9000W Predator is an electric start model, so it's pretty easy to start the generator, plug in the cord, and flip the transfer switch. Usually, it's best to bring the load on line one circuit breaker at a time. Circuits with large motors on them can draw up to 3 times the normal load when starting up. This would include refrigeration equipment, large fans, compressors, or anything using large electric motors.

When I run the wire for the larger permanent generator it will be sized for 60A service. The generator will be 50A output. That will be 4 AWG wire in conduit. It will require a different receptacle for 50A input. I'm going to put the generator in a semi-enclosed outbuilding and pipe the exhaust outside. That building has 6 inches of open space at the top and bottom of all the walls. That should give ample ventilation for the air cooling.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

There are benefits and drawbacks. Renting a 500 gallon tank around here is $90 to $100 a year instead of shelling out $2300 all at once. Rentals cover maintenance and parts. Buying your own tank means you're responsible for it.

Renting means you have to enter into a contract that says you can only buy propane from whoever you rented your tank from. Some make you buy a certain amount a year, or you'll pay for anyway if you don't need that much. Or worse yet, they'll nail you for refills outside of your schedule. You'll pay it because you need it. You also have to have an above-ground tank.

Buying allows you to fill with whoever has the best price. Where I live, there are plenty of companies who are willing to fill any tank they can. Not sure about other areas. I just paid $1100 to fill my tank. Not a small chunk of change for a company to turn away from.

That's what I've found when investigating getting my own tank. They don't want to rent to you if you're only using a few gallons, or in some years none. They will charge you a minimum fee to cover non-usage. Better to have your own tank.

 

[No_Regerts]

That's what I've found when investigating getting my own tank. They don't want to rent to you if you're only using a few gallons, or in some years none. They will charge you a minimum fee to cover non-usage. Better to have your own tank.

I decided to rent because it will take 21 years of fees to equal the tank. I have lots of things that run on it, so my biggest issue would be running out rather than not using enough. I got a 500 gallon tank to avoid running out.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

I decided to rent because it will take 21 years of fees to equal the tank. I have lots of things that run on it, so my biggest issue would be running out rather than not using enough. I got a 500 gallon tank to avoid running out.

What other stuff do you have running off of your tank? We have a heat pump for HVAC, and an all electric kitchen with an induction cook top. I can't find much else to run on propane except the BBQ. I suppose I could hard plumb that in.