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Drying Up Ammo Intentionally

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by aslinged, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. aslinged

    aslinged Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    There's plenty of evidence, more than enough, to make even a half wit start to wonder if the enormous ammo purchases by .gov entities are intentionally taking place in order to dry up the supply. It's been said for years (Chris Rock famously) that the weak spot on the modern right to bear arms is the ammo, the food.

    It's gone out on Michael Savage that in addition to the upwards of 2 billion rounds purchased recently by domestic agencies, .gov has put in advance purchase orders that will set back a return to availability and sane prices even more. Is that specifically to make it difficult for the little guy to keep his guns fed? Hmmm. Either way, let's say it's not intentional. Let's say it's entirely circumstantial (circumstantial to what, I don't know) fine.

    It's still gonna be a problem. It's gonna be a problem if prices don't come down. It's gonna be a problem if it's simply not available.

    I started a thread in the Group Buy subforum to entertain input on doing a massive forum-wide group buy through a local, quality ammo manufacturer for common calibers. It's entirely within the bounds of the legal forum to put this out again here. Money talks, the law is run by money and if you disagree the burden of proof is absolutely, entirely on you.

    Who has experience with group buys?
    Who wants to pad their ammo kitty at feasible prices?
    Who has connections or a friend at an ammo manufacturer?

    Think about it, I appreciate your input.
     
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  2. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    My thought is to the profitability to the manufacturer of the ammo. While the .gov purchases are huge I suspect the margin is real thin and they count on the civilian market to make up the difference, or as for their 'real' priofit. Ammo is somewhat a 'generic' product in there is little difference in it between all the manufacturers and the profit is based on USAGE - nothing else. Some mfgs. may try to offer this and that to boost sales and most of that is directed to the civilian market but the reality is most shooters are looking for the best deal on the greatest quantities. Therefore I suspect most mfgs. will want to start resupplying the civilian distributors as soon as is practical for them.
     
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  3. ORHunter79

    ORHunter79 ... Active Member

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    ......
     
  4. sheepdip

    sheepdip Redland Well-Known Member

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    I heard something along the lines of 8 million rounds a day being produced between the different manufacturers. could that be true?. if so where in the hell are they all going?:confused:
     
  5. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    Might be - but only if we had some real evidence such as first hand from someone in the ammo industry, and even then I would be skeptical. Until that time I believe nothing - unless I see it personally.
     
  6. jricker3

    jricker3 Klamath Falls, OR Active Member

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    That doesn't go very far these days. Assuming that all of the plants work 365 days per year this gives us 2,920,000,000 rounds. If there are in fact approximately 270,000,000 guns in the US currently as gunpolicy.org states, that works out to a mere 10.81 rounds per gun per year. If everyone went out and tried to buy only 1 box of ammo per gun, that would chew up our production for 3-4 years!

    Kinda makes you think.
     
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  7. sheepdip

    sheepdip Redland Well-Known Member

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    WOW, 8 million sound like a lot until you break it down like that. Get the whips out, 24 -7 shifts lets stir up some ammo dammit!
     
  8. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Where has all the 22LR gone? CCI makes 4 million rounds per day.

    [video=youtube;pvK9QlQtrKI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pvK9QlQtrKI#t=38s[/video]
     
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  9. mancat

    mancat Kitsap County Well-Known Member

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    Despite all the massive DHS orders, I do believe the plain truth is that a lot of us really have hoarded a huge majority of it.

    When you start to see requisition orders for 7.62x39 by government agencies, then you'll know that the theory is true.
     
  10. akmewon

    akmewon clackamas Active Member

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    pretty funny if you go to cci website and go to faq this is written:
    We are currently experiencing high demand for our products. We appreciate your patience and support and remain committed to serving all of our customers.

    Q: Why is ammunition in certain calibers so hard to find?
    A: The current market and environment is causing stronger than usual demand for products in our industry.

    Q: Are certain contracts taking ammunition away from civilians?
    A: No. We remain committed to serving all channels of our business.

    Q: Why can't you just make more ammunition?
    A: Our facilities operate 24-hours a day. We are continually making process improvements to increase our efficiency and investing in capital and personnel where we have sustained demand. We are bringing additional capacity online again this year.

    Q: What is your stance on the current gun legislation?
    A: We, like most major manufacturers in our industry, are members of the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF). This organization also represents our industry and the interests of companies and customers in legislative matters. Information can be found at NSSF - National Shooting Sports Foundation.
     
  11. SOrez

    SOrez SOR Active Member

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    The U.S. military does buy AK ammo for friendly forces that use AKs
     
  12. mancat

    mancat Kitsap County Well-Known Member

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    Yes they do, but they don't purchase them through or for domestic agencies.
     
  13. ArgentineSteel

    ArgentineSteel Vancouver, WA Active Member

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    A few more data points to note. One of the first programs this administration started was cash for clunkers. The effect was to drive up prices of used vehicles and parts for vehicles. Poor people couldn't afford cars as all the cheap clunkers were bought by the feds.

    Fannie and Freddy bought all the bad paper on housing getting the banks to loan money to people would never be able to pay it back, but if they could sell the loan to the feds, who cared. Drove up the prices on houses and when the bubble burst no one could sell homes for half what they were worth. Poor people lost their homes.

    Earlier on in the administration the military was eating all the ammo they could get to send to the wars. Now that the wars are cooling down, federal agencies like the IRS are buying billions of rounds. Making it hard for gunnies to afford ammo, and if we can get it we can't afford to shoot it.

    I think it's all a recurring pattern. It all goes to increase misery and make life in general harder for people on the lower end of the income level. Where are they going to turn when they can't afford a car, can't afford a house, can't afford health care and don't have jobs to work their way out of poverty?

    Don't worry, government has your safety net right here.
     
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  14. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    I have received an email a couple of weeks ago from one of my online sources stating that some of the calibers will not be imported into the US by Tula this year. The below is a complete list. There was no explanation why.
    .223 55GR HP
    .223 55GR SP
    .223 62GR FMJ
    .223 62GR HP
    .223 75 GR HP
    .30 Carbine 110GR FMJ
    .308 165GR SP
    5.45x39 60GR FMJ
    5.45x39 60GR HP
    7.62x54R 148GR FMJ
    .357 Magnum 158GR FMJ
    9x18 Makarov 92GR FMJ
    .45 Auto Tin Can
    .223 Tin Can.

    I have never bought Tula ammo, but I'm sure others do and this is just another reason why there is a shortage. Maybe Putin is behind it and doing it to upset the American peasants at their masters.
     
  15. 8ball

    8ball WA Quit talkin' and start chalking!

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    It's just panic buying. I doubt anyone in the alleged government conspiracy is stupid enough to try and buy all the ammo in the free world. As prices rise, more will be manufactured and eventually it will level out. Ammo is not *that* hard to manufacture. Personally I'm looking forward to stocking up when the prices crash!

    Also, the DHS orders are sourcing contracts. It's not like they are placing an order and a truck magically shows up with a billion rounds. It means that the manufacturers guarantee a set price over five years, up to a certain maximum.

    Unfortunately most of the tin foil hat brigade is hiding in their basement and doesn't understand economics or logistics much.
     
  16. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Have you ever seen a box of Lake City brand .308 or 5.56 ammo on the shelf in a store?
    Have you ever seen a box of General Dynamic's ammo or any of the other big manufacturers of military ammo?

    NO? me either. The current shortage falls right on the sky is falling panic buying world of the gun owner. The Government isn't buying any more ammo from anyone they haven't always bought from. The only thing that has changed is the amount of ammo that the public has bought.

    Afterall it wasn't an FBI agent that walked into BiMart in Molalla and bought all the .44spl or the 12ga ammo. Now was it?
     
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  17. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    I still need more ammo to reach my goal of being able to call my ammo stash my 401K.:laugh:
     
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  18. Suge206

    Suge206 Seattle Active Member

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    wow cash for clunkers was intended to take cars away from poor people


    lol I guess you learn something new everyday
     
  19. aslinged

    aslinged Southern Oregon Well-Known Member

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    You're the same guy who can't google NDAA, right? Yeah, thought so. That's good to know because I can be assured that you didn't do a shred of research on purchase order of late, thus you'd have no idea whether or not said orders were on par with recent years. They are not.
     
  20. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    It's called unintended consequences. Learn to economics.