DRAMATIC Lead Bullet IN-Accuracy!

[RVTECH]

To begin with I am a longtime, experienced reloader with over 40 years behind me so I have the basics down!

Recently I reported on buying some 135 gr hard cast lead bullets due to both availability and reduced cost, and mostly due to a difficulty in finding 110 grain FMJ or 100 grain Speer 'Plinkers' which I have been using for years to load reduced .30-30 loads.

I have tried two loads, 12 and then down to 10 grains of Unique - both of which I have used with the 110s & 100 with excellent accuracy - however these bullets shoot horribly in two Winchesters - which normally shoot very accurately.

I had never shot cast in these rifles and didn't know what to expect but read many reports of lead bullet accuracy to be good to excellent in lower velocity loads with Unique.

These bullets 'mike' at .309, are 16 BRH and I have carefully hand weighed the charges but still terrible accuracy and I don't mean like just 6" groups at 50 yards - I am rarely hitting a target on normal 8 1/2 X 11 paper at 50 yards.

Any ideas, or help with possible issues I may be overlooking with this will be appreciated!

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[Kruel J]

Polygonal rifling? I'm just guessing here.......

 

[Member 34319]

I'm not exactly sure to the cause.

I am curious to hear more information on the rifles themselves? If known.

Maybe copper fouled to the point the lead bullets aren't getting enough grip on the rifling?

Velocity of the loads? Might be too fast.

Type of bullet? Flat nose, round nose?

 

[RVTECH]

Polygonal rifling? I'm just guessing here.......

No - Winchester Mod 94s. - Standard rifling.

 

[Kruel J]

No - Winchester Mod 94s. - Standard rifling.

Poor quality projectiles?

 

[RVTECH]

I am curious to hear more information on the rifles themselves? If known.

# 1 - Excellent condition 1966 mod 94 26" barrel with low round count. LNIB when I bought it a few years ago. Capable of ragged one hole at 50 yards.

# 2 - 1899 WInchester mod 94 26". Although 121 years old the barrel and internals are in excellent condition and this rifle as well shoot jacketed very accurately.

Velocity - approx 1600-1700 FPS (estimated on published load)

Bullet - flat nose.

 

[RVTECH]

Poor quality projectiles?

Purchased from Badman bullets - A quality, Oregon based mfg. with very good reviews.

Literally the best looking cast bullets I have ever seen.

 

[Member 34319]

Try getting closer to 1200-1400 FPS and see if it improves, unless the bullets have gas checks?

Maybe swage your bores as well. The bullets could be too small.

 

[RVTECH]

unless the bullets have gas checks?

No gas checks.

 

[41mag]

I'm sure Badman will be willing to work online with you to find satisfactory performance. His timely suggestions to my own pistol recipes have been very beneficial. Once upon a time years back, I had trouble with a 45-70 load in a Marlin. One of his first questions, something I had overlooked, lead to the exact solution.

 

[DizzyJ]

# 1 - Excellent condition 1966 mod 94 26" barrel with low round count. LNIB when I bought it a few years ago. Capable of ragged one hole at 50 yards.

# 2 - 1899 WInchester mod 94 26". Although 121 years old the barrel and internals are in excellent condition and this rifle as well shoot jacketed very accurately.

Velocity - approx 1600-1700 FPS (estimated on published load)

Bullet - flat nose.

Try slowing them down a bit as mentioned.

 

[Certaindeaf]

# 1 - Excellent condition 1966 mod 94 26" barrel with low round count. LNIB when I bought it a few years ago. Capable of ragged one hole at 50 yards.

# 2 - 1899 WInchester mod 94 26". Although 121 years old the barrel and internals are in excellent condition and this rifle as well shoot jacketed very accurately.

Velocity - approx 1600-1700 FPS (estimated on published load)

Bullet - flat nose.

That's too fast for plain base lead unless they are pretty darn hard and fit your gun barrel properly.
These are greased or PC? PC bullets generally don't lead as much.
If it was me, dial it back so they're going about 1000 and you should be good.

 

[RVTECH]

These are greased or PC?

Traditionally lubed.

 

[DizzyJ]

You may have to give your barrels a good scrubbing first too if they're leaded up now.

 

[Certaindeaf]

If you've made it a smoothbore use 50/50 hydrogen peroxide and vinegar. Plug the barrel and fill it.. leave in for 10-20 minutes, swab and repeat if necessary. The solution becomes lead acetate so don't breathe the fumes or touch it, it can kill you for reals. Suppressor guys use it all the time. I used it a bunch because I made a huge batch of 9 that leaded like crazy and didn't want to pull them all. Works great.
Do an online search for other cautions concerning certain metals etc..

 

[awshoot]

...
I have tried two loads, 12 and then down to 10 grains of Unique - both of which I have used with the 110s & 100 with excellent accuracy - however these bullets shoot horribly in two Winchesters - which normally shoot very accurately.
...

Have you tried making a series of loads at different powder weights and then seeing which load shoots best? I do this whenever I change something (primer, shell, and especially the bullet).

 

[RVTECH]

Have you tried making a series of loads at different powder weights and then seeing which load shoots best?

This will be next - a few each from 8 to 7 to 6 grains and I'll see what happens.

 

[awshoot]

This will be next - a few each from 8 to 7 to 6 grains and I'll see what happens.

I bet you find something that shoots decent.

 

[CLT65]

I did the same thing a few years back, with plain-base cast bullets in a 94 Winchester, with the same results. I went to a gas check bullet and it changed everything. Like everyone else said, slow them down a bit and I'll bet they'll shoot OK.

Recently I've been playing with some surplus plastic bullets I've had lying around for years. They are a 20gr plastic bullet with a copper base. I load them with a few grains of Bullseye for about 2000fps and have been surprised that they shoot quite accurately at 25 yards.

 

[RVTECH]

I bet you find something that shoots decent.

I certainly hope so.

As a long term reloader I am no stranger to a certain amount of experimentation with certain loads but my experience is it they started with a level of consistent accuracy to begin with and only needed 'fine tuning' for optimal accuracy.

I have never experienced inaccuracy to this degree (well once but it was the gun - not ammo) and I'll invest a little more time experimenting with other charges and maybe a different powder or two but I will not get into a 'revolving door' of chasing something that many never work.