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Dpms

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by slim05, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. slim05

    slim05 southern oregon Member

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    what do you think of the brand of DPMS AR? have been looking in to them and want to make sure I will be getting a well made gun. What do you think??????
     
  2. 9mmD

    9mmD sw wa Member

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    I like mine. Although it is still newer i haven't had any problems and dont think i will for quite some time. It might not be the fancyist and have all the big $$ items but it quite accurate and as long as the main parts hold up it should be fine for yrs. even it something goes bad just upgrade the part then.
     
  3. CVMustang

    CVMustang Hillsboro Member

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    I bought a Sportical about 6 mos ago. I have put about 600 rounds thru it so far, 100% perfect. I paid $579, best deal I could find for a brand new AR, and I love it.
     
  4. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    If they are .223 rather than 5.56, I'd think twice. I have this SHTF mentality, and want the ability to use NATO ammo if I can scrounge any.

    Same for the .308 vs 7.62 Nato.

    $.02
     
  5. DrDave

    DrDave Seattle, WA Member

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    Great AR's, very underated by the AR snobs:laugh:
     
  6. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    You can call them AR snobs or you can call them dedicated AR enthusiasts. I am not a fan of the AR-15 design but I think it is good to have experience with it. After you hear from armorers, gunsmiths, and people who put serious round counts through the rifle list the reported problems as well as those they see in DPMS' execution and what that means to the end user, it becomes easy to pass.

    It is tempting to think an AR is an AR since they all look similar but after seeing several hundred built by my friend's company and seeing what can and does go wrong with bad parts, I understand it can look the same but it may not be the same due to a choice of materials/components, lack of quality control, etc.

    The thing to remember is shooting is an expensive hobby and gun owners as a group try to spend as little as possible. If a DPMS produced rifle was routinely hanging in there with top tier AR-15 pattern rifles, people would be flocking to them. Instead DPMS gets people who either have very little money for an AR-15 pattern rifle or individuals who don't understand what the differences are and what it could mean to them when they start to get into serious round counts or try to push them hard.

    It's like the differences you see in 1911 pistols. Some people may scoff at the price tag on a Wilson Combat CQB 1911 and think their $550 Taurus PT1911 is every bit as good since it looks similar. Unfortunately, the Taurus is a roughly made copy. I've had them apart side by side and I've shot them both. There is a real difference in quality and performance. I know the person who has the Taurus doesn't want to hear that his pistol isn't as good as another pistol, but that's the way it is. To a certain extent there is a certain fixed price threshold in manufacturing good quality products. When companies try to cut corners to reduce price they often end up sacrificing quality.
     
  7. cbzdel

    cbzdel Tacoma, WA Member

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    But there is the person like me. I have the Taurus 1911, I paid $550 for it. I am more than happy with it. It puts the bullet where I want it. I fell happy having it on my night stand. There is for sure a quality difference between the Taurus and the WC. But for me personally I would do some occasional target practice a couple times a year and other than that the gun sits waiting for SHTF.. I handled the WC at the shop before I bought my Taurus and everything about it felt more quality than the Taurus, but I believe IIRC it was 3-4x the price. And IMO its not worth it because I dont need that quality for its intended purpose. If I was comp shooting its another story though.

    I wrote that just really to say the same goes for the DMPS AR. If it puts the bullet where you want it great! If you plan on doing target practice with it, great. There will always be something better, but it all comes down to the question:

    How good of quality do you need to meet the purpose for purchasing the weapon.

    e.g. you dont need top of the line parts for pinking pop cans off your backyard fence post.
     
  8. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    Sure. The problem from my point of view is that often the lower tier version is touted as being as good as the other one or that the difference in quality isn't warranted by the difference in price.

    While I agree that you don't need a top of the line pistol to plink at cans, I don't think it's a great idea to rely on that same pistol for serious work. I would hope that you can see it's a little contradictory to say your purpose for the pistol is only plinking but it's your "go to" firearm on the nightstand in case of emergency. -Yet this is what happens. People buy it as a "plinker" and then rely on it for something serious. It's not a great way to approach self-defense. If you are concerned with self-defense, it should start as something that is ideal for self-defense but can also be used for plinking not as something that is cost-effective for plinking but can be used for self-defense.
     
  9. 9mmMike

    9mmMike Gladstone, OR Member

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    Funny, as I had DPMS recommended by some local PD armorors .......
     
  10. 9mmD

    9mmD sw wa Member

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    I agree with the you get what you pay for argument especially if you shot competivly...butttttt.... I would have no second thoughts grabbing my dpms for SHTF knowing it has performed for me every time. That goes the same for my XD/glocks/ even rugers. never a problem and dont expect one... and they are all cheaper but perfect for the "average" shooter. Sure you might not get 10K rounds out of some of the parts but then again how many of use are putting those kinda numbers down range.
     
  11. Outrider

    Outrider Oregon Active Member

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    I'm sure they meant well, but if that's the advice they gave you, they probably don't know the differences between the brands or could begin to explain to you what different twist rates do or have to do with different weight bullets. There's a difference between someone who simply replaces parts and someone who understands why something broke or needs to be replaced.

    The question that you have to ask is if the person is willing to research something he doesn't know or does he not know what he doesn't know. -I'm willing to look it up and learn. Believe me, I'd be thrilled if DPMS was a good deal but if you're planning to put the rifle through its paces with carbine training, it's not. It's a buy cheap buy twice kind of thing.

    It's not really a question of cheaper vs. expensive when you're comparing different designs. A Glock pistol is a more refined design than a 1911. It has the benefit of 70+ years of technological and material improvements in it. It requires less handfitting and is easier to mass produce. While I personally prefer to shoot a well-tuned 1911, there is not a doubt in my mind that the average Glock is more reliable out of the box than the average 1911 and the Glock costs less.

    When you are comparing firearms that share the same design but were made by different manufacturers and you start to look into it, that's when the differences start to emerge. I realize you are dismissive of ten thousand rounds out of a single firearm, but it's not uncommon with shooters to do that. I've done it and I know there are plenty of more active shooters out there than me. I've had shooting friends who have burned up guns through honest use. I'm burning through my favorite custom 1911. It's on its second finish, second barrel, second bushing, God knows what number recoil spring, etc. Unless I sell it early, it's going to be worn out before I'm done with it.
     
  12. 9mmMike

    9mmMike Gladstone, OR Member

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    dm
     
  13. huntpotter

    huntpotter SW WA Negotiator Bronze Supporter

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    DPMS is owned by the same corporation, that also owns Bushmaster, and Remington. Cerberus capital management. A DPMS, would be made out of shared materials, so they should be the same quality as a Bushmaster, or Remington R-15. Anybody ever notice Rem's R-15 is the same as a Bushmaster optics ready carbine? Anyway, I've shot DPMS, they are just as good any quality patern AR-15. Price is usually better, though. I bought my DPMS AR for $600 at the gunshow. Chrome lined barrel, 5.56, same aluminum forge marks as a Bushmaster, good to go.
     
  14. Spitpatch

    Spitpatch Forest Grove, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I recently made the same decision you are facing, and for my purposes, my DPMS AP-4 is perfect.

    I carried a Colt in the service, and my brother has a Colt H-bar, which he is pleased with, and I shot extensively. I am a Colt collector. I wanted a Colt.

    I spent 2 years researching the AR's. My intended purpose was for a light, strap on my back semi-auto coyote gun. Accuracy was of paramount importance. I am an avid handloader, and have a 100-yard benchrest cabin on my property (not bragging, just advising that I'm serious about accuracy in my guns.) In my job, I have day-to-day contact with law enforcement. A few of them know about guns. (Most do not.) I relied on the few to help me decide. I spent 4 days with the FBI and Delta Force on a range near Las Vegas testing optics and AR's. Almost without exception, they offered good impressions about DPMS.

    I considered the Colt to be the "Cadillac". I ended up with what I would call the "Toyota". Reliable, well-made, and about 2/3 the price. I figured if I was dissatisfied, I could get almost all my money out of it if I hadn't shot it much.

    I've had the AP-4 now for six months. I've tried every way I could to make it jam or misfire and have been unsuccessful in that experiment. Cheap military ammo, "Squib loads", holding it upside down, sideways, etc., etc., etc.

    It shot crappy cheap FMJ ammo at near 1" groups right out of the box. I put a Leupold Ultralight 3-9x scope on it, and with my "go-to" .223 handload of 25 grains of H335, benchrest primer, and 55g Nosler Ballistic Tips, and the minor addition of a Timney trigger at 2lbs, it will now print little clover-leaf clusters all day This gun scares the heck out of me.

    Again, for my purposes, it exceeds all my expectations.
     
  15. Iceberg

    Iceberg Forest Grove Active Member

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    Most of the ARs uppers & lowers (for most brands/mfgs) are all made by sub contractors. DPMS makes a good quality AR that is the second best selling AR brand on the market. After web researching this topic at some length, I could find very little real data to support the bashing that goes on inside the dedicated AR15 sites. I have never met an owner of a DPMS rifle that was unhappy with his/her rifle. It really bugs me that internet commandos “operators….lol” spend so much time & effort bashing different AR brands. All you have to do is mention Bushmaster (#1 selling mfg), DPMS (#2 selling mfg) or Olympic Arms and these guys will absolutely go nuts. I guess I should expect it since I’m also a car guy; everyone knows how loving Ford guys are to Chevy guys….lol.
    I have a DMPS complete lower that I have mounted on a Spike's dedicated .22LR upper that has excellent fit & finish; I have had no issues w/ my lower after many thousands of dirty .22 LR rounds.
    DPMS rifles will have a lower resale value than a Colt, Knight’s Armament, LMT, BCM or Noveske, but since you will pay much less up front, it will probably not make much of a net difference. On the positive side, it is usually much easier to sell a reasonably prices AR than a hyper expensive “boutique” brand AR.

    There is a comprehensive AR brand comparison chart posted that has helped create hate & discontent among AR15 owners. It is a somewhat useful tool if used as intended, however in reality it is mainly used to reinforce brand bashing by the internet commandos.

    Here is the link:
    http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?k...jFwPrgTA&gid=5


    I own Colt, LMT, CMMG & DMPS ARs & I like them all. I have also owned Bushmaster & Armalite rifles that were also great products. Just buy the rifle/carbine that you can afford & makes you happy, it is your money.
     
  16. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, Cerberus also owns Marlin.