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You pay extra when you buy PM & pay extra when you sell it, it would be hard to sell in shtf scenario, there may not be marker if we fall into depression, it's not for me, Good Luck!
 
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gmerkt

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PM's can simply be another basket for wealth. A tangible basket. Like firearms. The market goes up. The market goes down. Regardless, some folks will not sell. Just a basket for wealth, perhaps to be passed on to the next generation...
This is how I look at it. With luck, I will never have to touch it. It's cost to me doesn't matter over time. It's like buying insurance, not an investment in the normal sense. But truly an investment in potential security.

The problem is the buying power is the same. The price of silver inflates at the same rate as the price of goods. So unless you can afford to sink a bunch of money into PMs only to get an equal amount of spending power later, its not much of an investment. But if you have money that is doing nothing now, and want to protect that cash from inflation PMs are a good answer.
This is not the problem, but the essence. Store of value, not increase through investment / speculation.

If you keep the gold/silver/jewels at home or hidden somewhere other than a safe deposit box it can get stolen. If its in a safe deposit box--well, in the great depression the banks failed and closed and you lost access to your safe deposit box. My mother told me that most people ultimately were able to recover the contents of their safe deposit boxes, but not for months.
Safe deposit boxes aren't always so safe. There are many documented cases of pilfered contents, typically it involves an inside job on the part of a bank employee. Or loss by mistake, where contents are erroneously sent to state authorities as abandoned. Then sometimes pilfered by state employees. Not my imagination, there are recorded cases. But based on the number of boxes around, probably statistically rare. It's almost certain that more people have had their stuff stolen by relatives or burglars that weren't in safety deposit boxes.

I would not worry about the bank closing etc, you would get your contents,
Same comment as previously, loss not through failure of the institution, rather internal theft.

The biggest down side to any precious metals is assuming that because they are worth something right now , they will be worth something when you actually need to use them as a medium of exchange. I have some silver and gold and I am not assuming someone would trade me a bunch of food or other essential items for them if things get dire.
Buy it, put it away, and forget about it. My view on owning PM is that use as an immediate medium of exchange is secondary to their use as a bridging device to store value from an era of financial emergency through to a new one of stability.

The downside, in my opinion, is their use as actual currency right now would be difficult. Try to buy your morning coffee with silver or gold. You'd have to both agree on the exchange rate by weight, if the seller was willing at all and you'd be left with a weird part circle/oz. You could also just sell a full oz to a person on the street and go from there but again, you'd both need to agree on the exchange rate and some people like discounts and or fees when PMs are involved. To me, they're a store of value but not actual currency in this country, save for those who understand the value already
Mostly agree, but that's why you don't put all your PM money in the same medium. Gold for the big stuff, silver in smaller units in case it was needed for emergency commerce. Actually, you can get US Gold Eagle products (and others) in sizes as small as 1/10th oz. but the premium is pretty stiff.

History advises against discounts for taking PM in commerce. During the US Civil War, gold was preferred, US currency was discounted significantly. When you read stories from the 19th century, you will see references to payments "in gold" and there was a reason for it.

This is the crux, and people unfamiliar with liquidating stuff have no idea about it. There are people within a couple hours drive of everywhere (probably closer) who will buy your PMs for whatever the local money is. And that informal network doesn't go away when times change. Most other stuff? It's a crap shoot as to whether you can turn it into money at all, much less how much money.
Completely and entirely true.

I neglected to catch the quote, but timing the market in buying reduces the cost of buying PM. It does go in cycles, best not to buy when there's a lot of excitement about PM. The older you get, the easier it is to pick the cycles. BUT: There has been sustained interest in PM for 3,000 years or more, no reason to expect it to go away any time soon.

If you ever want to feel small in our cosmos, read about how it came to be that gold and other precious metals are in our soil.
 
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What if I just stick the $50K in my safe? Who is going to report it at all? Given the low interest rates these days there really isn't a lot of advantage to depositing it except for having the money there to pay bills. So now let's say I'm a fellow with regular income That money is dropped into my account at regular intervals every month. Meanwhile I find some eccentric millionaire who will buy my HiPoint collection for $50K cash.
I go there and meet him with my detector pen and after I check all 500 $100 bills, OR test the silver ingots I transfer the HiPoints to him and go my merry way. The gun shop doesn't know or care what he paid me and for myself, I keep my mouth shut. I go home with either, stuff them in my safe and withdraw from the Bank of Me whenever a new shiny object catches my eye. The bank sees the usual deposits and transactions in my accounts and I can even drop a few Thousand in my savings from time to time if I want. If I want work done on the house I can always find a contractor who will work for cash. If I want a new suit or gun or framistat, I pay cash because nearly all sellers like cash. The seller who doesn't want cash but has something I really want or need gets paid out of my bank account.
Handling cash or PM's really isn't all that difficult.
The hardest part of it all is finding the eccentric millionaire who likes HiPoints.
I think your reply highlights the problem for people that either (1) have PM is significant quantity and (2) decide they want to "cash out" and buy things that poor people can't afford. An eccentric billionaire wanting Hi-Points might exist, but it's going to be on the .00000001% scale. Or the dealer willing to take 50K worth of PM (or cash) for a holy grail NFA item and deal with the IRS consequences and hassle - most won't. Ruben @ DealerNFA has detailed out this problem in forum posts (I can't find the links just now, only that I've read his comments on it.)

So hoarding PM becomes more of a trading device for low level items or services for the poors, but a PITA for almost everyone else.

My stepfather, bless his heart, doesn't trust government at all but his hoarding is going to be logistical pain mostly for the rest of us later on. And by us I mean me, since I'm his executor and I'm not going to burden my mom with anything but doing what she wishes or directs.
 
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My precious metals were in RF ammunition and NOT in gold or silver.

I keep an extremely small amount for my very LOW level of shooting now.

The rest of it went to my husband and he switched over to almost ALL HP 22lr and 22wmr ammunition. He keeps a MUCH, much lower amount of RF ammo on hand now too.

He still shoots on a regular basis but he is SLOWING down a bit there in RF and in CF shooting per session.

He has been busy doing OTHER THINGS and I have done the same thing too. OTHER interests and outdoor stuff.

I am still a strong advocate for the RKBA issue and for self defense issues.

But for plinking as I used to do - my arthritis does not make it enjoyable.

And that is AFTER I quit being a high volume shooter, into competition, into CF and RF shooting, etc.

Two beautiful and expensive pieces of my gold jewelry went to my older brother and older sister years ago. I wanted them to have these things BEFORE I died so they could enjoy them even if they are older than me.

One gold chain, one string of pearls circa 1968, a couple of plain wedding bands and a couple of earrings - simple studs - that is what is left and I barely ever USE THEM. I do not even wear a simple wedding band now and I always did in the past. I do not wear a watch any longer but it is still here.

The rest of the stuff got gifted - almost all of it and I sold a few things many, many moons ago.

Old Lady Cate
 
I think your reply highlights the problem for people that either (1) have PM is significant quantity and (2) decide they want to "cash out" and buy things that poor people can't afford. An eccentric billionaire wanting Hi-Points might exist, but it's going to be on the .00000001% scale. Or the dealer willing to take 50K worth of PM (or cash) for a holy grail NFA item and deal with the IRS consequences and hassle - most won't. Ruben @ DealerNFA has detailed out this problem in forum posts (I can't find the links just now, only that I've read his comments on it.)

So hoarding PM becomes more of a trading device for low level items or services for the poors, but a PITA for almost everyone else.

My stepfather, bless his heart, doesn't trust government at all but his hoarding is going to be logistical pain mostly for the rest of us later on. And by us I mean me, since I'm his executor and I'm not going to burden my mom with anything but doing what she wishes or directs.
As executor, you should be doing as he wishes. If he wishes %'s of his estate to go to various entities & people, that's what you should do.

If he wishes all to go to his wife, your mom. Then your statement is spot on.

Regardless, you should be talking with him (if possible). To learn as much as you can about his collection, and whom he dealt with, including whom he would not deal with.

Especially if his collection includes collector coins/items, so you can get a better idea of their value compared with spot. Given that you are not a collector, is all.

My thought is that you are thinking this is far more daunting than it truly is, simply because you are not familiar is all. Just as if he owned a business, or rental properties. And you were unfamiliar with such. In actuality, PM's are easier "to deal with", compared to prior. Or even compared with an extensive firearms collection!

Fewer intermediaries, and not waiting (perhaps extended periods) for the rite buyer.
 
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As executor, you should be doing as he wishes. If he wishes %'s of his estate to go to various entities & people, that's what you should do.

If he wishes all to go to his wife, your mom. Then your statement is spot on.

Regardless, you should be talking with him (if possible). To learn as much as you can about his collection, and whom he dealt with, including whom he would not deal with.

Especially if his collection includes collector coins/items, so you can get a better idea of their value compared with spot. Given that you are not a collector, is all.

My thought is that you are thinking this is far more daunting than it truly is, simply because you are not familiar is all. Just as if he owned a business, or rental properties. And you were unfamiliar with such. In actuality, PM's are easier "to deal with", compared to prior. Or even compared with an extensive firearms collection!

Fewer intermediaries, and not waiting (perhaps extended periods) for the rite buyer
I'm not sure if your intention is to be condescending or if it's an awareness issue. I'm going to assume best intention and go with the latter.

As executor and his stepson I do know what his priorities are - make sure his biological kids get a pittance and the rest stays in our family. And overall ensuring mom has everything she needs. Since she has managed her accounts well, this is just an asset that will be used how she sees fit, which will likely be to ignore it or punt given her other investments and savings.

I've disposed of a business when my father passed, and the process for handling was a lot clearer (to me) than this appears to be. This will, logistically, be more of a pain.
 
I'm not sure if your intention is to be condescending or if it's an awareness issue. I'm going to assume best intention and go with the latter.

As executor and his stepson I do know what his priorities are - make sure his biological kids get a pittance and the rest stays in our family. And overall ensuring mom has everything she needs. Since she has managed her accounts well, this is just an asset that will be used how she sees fit, which will likely be to ignore it or punt given her other investments and savings.

I've disposed of a business when my father passed, and the process for handling was a lot clearer (to me) than this appears to be. This will, logistically, be more of a pain.
Nope, not being condescending. Apologies if it came a crossed as such!

Compare your dealings over the inherited business, vs one way to deal with a PM inheritance.

Take PM's to a dealer. Get check. Deposit check. Split proceeds accordingly. Talk with your accountant regarding inheritance taxes over such.

The other way would be to split PM's directly. Let various family members deal with such as they wish. Then simply hold the remaining bulk of the inheritance (your Moms portion), doesn't sound as she needs it, nor does she want to deal with it. -which is understanble.

Best is to talk with your step father, if you can. I missed if he is cogent or not. To get a better understanding is all.
 
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Safe deposit boxes aren't always so safe. There are many documented cases of pilfered contents, typically it involves an inside job on the part of a bank employee. Or loss by mistake, where contents are erroneously sent to state authorities as abandoned. Then sometimes pilfered by state employees. Not my imagination, there are recorded cases. But based on the number of boxes around, probably statistically rare. It's almost certain that more people have had their stuff stolen by relatives or burglars that weren't in safety deposit boxes.


Same comment as previously, loss not through failure of the institution, rather internal theft.
Wait so the bank employee knows whats in your box how, if they do its because you opened your box in front of them and showed them? They are drilling peoples boxes in back by themselves in their free time, and some how replacing your keys??? The bank does not have master keys for boxes, you lose your key you then come in with ID they set up a lock smith appointment they re key the box while you stand there and watch everything. Bank closes they have all the costumers get their stuff or they move the boxes to another bank or you don't get your stuff it goes to the state who finds you, if not after years the state does eventually take it if no surviving family members are left.

Also its way easier to steal money at a bank out of the vault as an employee than it is to steal safe box contents, all federal crimes and all will get the FBI all up in your bootyhole. Out of 15 years in banks I have seen all types of robberies and internal thefts none ever involving a safe box, because only people in the movies hit safe boxes.
 

GWS

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Nope, not being condescending. Apologies if it came a crossed as such!

Compare your dealings over the inherited business, vs one way to deal with a PM inheritance.

Take PM's to a dealer. Get check. Deposit check. Split proceeds accordingly. Talk with your accountant regarding inheritance taxes over such.

The other way would be to split PM's directly. Let various family members deal with such as they wish. Then simply hold the remaining bulk of the inheritance (your Moms portion), doesn't sound as she needs it, nor does she want to deal with it. -which is understanble.

Best is to talk with your step father, if you can. I missed if he is cogent or not. To get a better understanding is all.
I have to agree with this advice
I would especially agree with dividing the silver and let the heirs decide what to do with it, assuming step father and mom are OK with that.
Get them all together in one place if at all possible because then you only have to make 1 trip and they can see that everyone else is getting what step dad wanted them to have per the reading of his will. That hopefully will minimize the BS of people thinking you held out on them or gave more to sis than to bro.
And IIRC, your time and expense in distributing the silver (and whatever other items are being passed on) should be compensated from the estate as well. Something to consider if you are having a lot of expense in taking care of the estate and especially if the heirs are being a PITA

Best of luck in whichever path you choose.
 

gmerkt

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Wait so the bank employee knows whats in your box how, if they do its because you opened your box in front of them and showed them? They are drilling peoples boxes in back by themselves in their free time, and some how replacing your keys??? The bank does not have master keys for boxes, you lose your key you then come in with ID they set up a lock smith appointment they re key the box while you stand there and watch everything. Bank closes they have all the costumers get their stuff or they move the boxes to another bank or you don't get your stuff it goes to the state who finds you, if not after years the state does eventually take it if no surviving family members are left.
I hear what you're saying. I can only repeat what I've read from what I consider credible sources. Unfortunately, I cannot link to a New York Times article dated July 19, 2019, "Safe Deposit Boxes Aren't Safe," due to pay wall issues. However, the Reader's Digest repeated some of it Sep 23, 2019 and here is a link to their abridged edition:


This article contained a story about a watch collector whose valuable items held in a SD box were mistakenly declared as unclaimed, were then turned over by the bank to the state agency that handles so-called lost property. Once tracked down, it was discovered that many of the valuable watches had been stolen while in state custody.

Here's a link to an article about a SD box that was mistakenly rented out to another customer:


A couple more.



There have been claims of suspicious disappearances from SD boxes. Unless there is some physical evidence of tampering, this is impossible to prove or disprove and banks routinely deny any responsibility. There may be less of this these days now that cameras are everywhere. But I don't completely discount the admittedly rare possibility that bank employees have found ways to surreptitiously enter SD boxes. If you can imagine it, somebody, somewhere has already done it.

One of the banks where I do business offered a free SD box. I had some stuff in it. One time I noticed the entire panel of boxes was loose, not bolted into the wall of a vault, sitting on a bench because the bank was getting ready some time in future to move to another building across the highway. The sheet metal sides and backs of the boxes were exposed. I withdrew my stuff and closed it out, I figured I could do better than that. I'd never liked that set-up anyway, as the vault was located in a corner against two outside walls.
 
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I hear what you're saying. I can only repeat what I've read from what I consider credible sources. Unfortunately, I cannot link to a New York Times article dated July 19, 2019, "Safe Deposit Boxes Aren't Safe," due to pay wall issues. However, the Reader's Digest repeated some of it Sep 23, 2019 and here is a link to their abridged edition:


This article contained a story about a watch collector whose valuable items held in a SD box were mistakenly declared as unclaimed, were then turned over by the bank to the state agency that handles so-called lost property. Once tracked down, it was discovered that many of the valuable watches had been stolen while in state custody.

Here's a link to an article about a SD box that was mistakenly rented out to another customer:


A couple more.



There have been claims of suspicious disappearances from SD boxes. Unless there is some physical evidence of tampering, this is impossible to prove or disprove and banks routinely deny any responsibility. There may be less of this these days now that cameras are everywhere. But I don't completely discount the admittedly rare possibility that bank employees have found ways to surreptitiously enter SD boxes. If you can imagine it, somebody, somewhere has already done it.

One of the banks where I do business offered a free SD box. I had some stuff in it. One time I noticed the entire panel of boxes was loose, not bolted into the wall of a vault, sitting on a bench because the bank was getting ready some time in future to move to another building across the highway. The sheet metal sides and backs of the boxes were exposed. I withdrew my stuff and closed it out, I figured I could do better than that. I'd never liked that set-up anyway, as the vault was located in a corner against two outside walls.
yeah I am just speaking from being at banks with safe boxes for 15 years some with around 3k boxes in them... I am sure a very small amount of shizz has gone on with them over the years considering they have been around for an extremely long time 150ish years. With that said if you won't keep a safe box because of bank employee screw ups you might want to withdrawal your money 🤣. Also they are really for documents and fire safety in my opinion also you can put personal insurance on the stuff..., gold watches etc you should insure and keep at home... whatever who cares
 

gmerkt

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With that said if you won't keep a safe box because of bank employee screw ups you might want to withdrawal your money
That happens too, occasionally. Many years ago (think of Lincoln Savings scandal era), a bank employee made a serruptitious withdrawal from an account I kept for one of my daughters. It was later determined that this employee was targeting accounts that didn't see much activity, I guess they thought they'd be outta there before the embezzlement was discovered. The bank made it good, there was no denial context for it.

Also they are really for documents and fire safety in my opinion also you can put personal insurance on the stuff..., gold watches etc you should insure and keep at home..
Until I started digging into this subject, I didn't know valuable watch collecting was "a thing" but I guess I should've, knowing that people collect just about everything imaginable. And, storing them in SD boxes is a common practice. The watch collectors advise insurance in addition to SD boxes.

Decades ago, I had a friend who had a fairly extensive collection of military pistols. He lived in an apartment and didn't feel safe keeping them on premises. So he rented a number of larger SD boxes around the city. Whenever he wanted to look at one, trade up or whatever, he'd have to go to this or that bank to make a "withdrawal."
 
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