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Don't talk to the cops?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Joe Link, Aug 20, 2008.

  1. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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  2. torpedoman

    torpedoman land of corrupt politicians Member

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    the only thing you should ever say to the police is "I want a lawyer" if you say this and they say you dont need one because you are not under arrest, LEAVE
     
  3. Aristotle13

    Aristotle13 Kent, WA Member

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    Excellent advise. Stress does all sorts of funny things to you "in the heat of the moment". If you're ever involved in a self defense situation, regardless of the situation or how legit the conditions may be, wether it's crystal clear or not, it is always a good idea to talk when you are both clear minded and in the company of a self appointed legal council that is looking after YOUR better interest.

    I simply would not stake the livelyhood of myself and family in our judicial system.
     
  4. hapuna

    hapuna Seattle, WA Member

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    I saw this earlier somewhere and I must say its the most compelling case I have heard elucidated. My lips are sealed dude!:laugh:
     
  5. sweetbeard

    sweetbeard Beavertown OreGUN! New Member

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    No kidding, I watch enough reality TV to know they never have enough evidence until some clown starts talking! And that clown will not be me..

    I might talk to this cop though!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBeB81PPlng

    And tell him that he is my role model..
     
  6. Oohrah

    Oohrah NorthwestSouthern Oregon Coast Member

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    English? Wha? Come whisle me out, so my mother knows
    who I hang by !!!! No savy:laugh:
     
  7. dru323

    dru323 Downtown Portland,OR Member

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    I suggest reading this, gives some good insights from a former cop and leading lethal force admin in the country.

    0936279001.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg
     
  8. Zeke Menuar

    Zeke Menuar Oregon Monsoon Central Member

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    And remember this, it's one of my favorites

    WARRANT.jpg
     
  9. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    We need to get something straight about Ayoob, He's never been a COP, only a reserve type officer. He has lost alot of his credibility within the LEO circles because of his senseless rambling and contradictions in Combat Handguns Magazine.

    He's smart, knows his stuff, but is out making a buck.
     
  10. robctwo

    robctwo rural North Albany Member

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    I've been practicing law for 32 years with about 1/2 of my practice criminal law. My assistant has a great quote "Our clients have the right to remain silent, just not the ability".

    We know that about 70% of the cases charged would result in dismissal or acquittal if the client simply said " I didn't do anything wrong, and I'd like to talk to my lawyer".

    Unfortunately somewhere the police and prosecutors decided that winning was more important than getting it right. If you start talking, the police will write down what they want to hear and you are screwed. Many times it is my client's best interest to make a statement. We do it in my office with recording equipment running. Funny, those statements are accurate in the police reports.

    It seems that the only time copes use taping devices is when they want to show impairment in driving cases. There is a trend to require taping of all "confessions" before they are admissible in Court. Excellent idea.
     
  11. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Sooooo everyone in LE work lies about statements?
     
  12. sweetbeard

    sweetbeard Beavertown OreGUN! New Member

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    That is coming from a defense attorney ( sounds like ) that spends his time trying to get criminals off...

    :thumbup:
     
  13. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    .......and everyone lies about things, but him! :confused:
     
  14. markw76

    markw76 Portland/Moscow on the Willamette Member

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    There was a lot of discussion of this over on PerfectUnion.
     
  15. dru323

    dru323 Downtown Portland,OR Member

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    Still, more of a credible source for the information we are referencing here than most of the internet.....*shrugs*
     
  16. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    I'm not going to go over every article he's written, but here's a taste of what I mean. I originally wrote this back in '05, in response to an article Ayoob posted in Combat handguns. But his style hasn't changed.........

    Ayoobs spectacle......uh.....I mean article.......
    Self-Defense & The Law A Court-Proof Trigger? The case for the Double-Action Only; 16 Case Reports.

    In the Feb 2005 issue of Combat Handguns, Ayboob jacks his jaws as usual and mixes fact with his own made up fiction that gives the reader an impression that a DAO is the only way to go. What is also interesting is the sub title on the page where the article starts, "Pistol Design is important in court - sixteen cases show you why!"

    From the above you would think that there are 16 "cases" where the trigger and/or gun design was liability hell or saved the shooter from the same.
    Read on...........

    Case 1; A newspaper headline saying a gun was blamed, but the Officer was cleared of any wrong doing and no follow-up against the gun's maker, Glock. Both the officer and Glock were clear. So is the Glock and its trigger court proof? It survived this legal process, but Ayboob wants you to believe that using a Glock would cause problems.........WOW!

    Case 2; An Officer fired a DA Ruger during entry, did not decock, then struggled with unarmed suspect and the gun discharged killing the suspect. The officer was not charged with anything, nor does Ayboob mention it. He did point out a massive lawsuit, but failed to give the outcome. We don't know if the trigger and/or gun is court-proof or not.

    Case 3; An unarmed suspect is killed during a struggle with an Officer with a DA Sig. In trial the officer was acquitted. Oddly enough, Ayboob writes that many observers felt that had the pistol been DAO, the Officer would not have been falsely accused. The fact of the matter is that the trigger did survive court, something Ayboob left out........Again!

    Case 4; An officer fired a Beretta intentionally once, and then unintentionally once. The department switches to Glocks. This case has nothing to with court.........why was it mentioned in an article about court proofing your gun!

    Case 5; A citizen kills a suspect with a "light-triggered" High Standard .22 target pistol. He fired the first shot intentionally and a second shot unintentionally after the suspect turned away. The citizen was not indicted, so his light trigger must be okay? Not according to Ayboob. The guy was financially ruined and Ayoob says that a gun with a heavy DAO trigger could have prevented the incident. More jaw jacking......as the trigger did survive the legal processes, but Ayboob still thinks it was a bad thing.
    A heavier trigger may or may not have prevented a second shot as Ayboob fails to elaborate on the subject. It isn't the gun or trigger at fault, its the shooter, and the shooter wasn't indicted. Remember one of the basic gun safety rules; KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON TARGET!

    Case 6; A Deputy shot himself twice with his Beretta, while reholstering with his finger on the trigger after shooting an attacking dog. This happens with revolvers and autos as well, so Ayboobs conclusion that a DAO trigger would have prevented this is stupid. Again, this didn't go to court.......so why is it in the article?

    Cases 7-14 are Glocks being put into wrong hoslters and discharging. Think a heavier trigger would have prevented this? It happens to revolvers too.
    Cases 7-14 didn't go to court again Ayboob.........so why the inclusion?

    Case 15; A gun mishandled by an officer that discharged. It didn't go to court either.........see a pattern?

    Case 16; A friend of Ayboob's. No shots fired, and nobody went to court.

    Results?

    3 cases went to grand jury or court and none returned any type of guilty verdict.

    1 case resulted in a lawsuit, but we don't know the results.

    12 cases didn't go to court.

    Ayboobs arguments are very poor for DAO court-proof trigger.
    In Case 16 no shot was fired and he includes it as a point for DAO triggers, the boy is off his rocker........how can he say this if nothing happened?
    He's supposing again..........as usual.

    He makes a case for DAO, but routinely carries a 1911 cocked & locked.......go figure.

    Ayboob is supposed to be a court expert. I hope he does a better job in court than he does here.........

    Back in 1991 Ayboob was a guest at our Wa. State Firearms Instructors week long seminar and 3 gun shoot. Its put on every year and we invite guest instructors........in the past we've had Cooper, Taylor, Hackathorn, Clint Smith, Awerbuck, Todd Jarrett.......and many other 'big' names in the industry.
    Along with having classes for us, we put on a friendly 3-gun competition.
    That year when Ayboob was there, he entered himself in our 3 gun shoot. He had an AD with his rifle, while other shooters were still getting ready for a particular stage........so many of us didn't have hearing protection on. He just looked around as if it was someone else, then when called on the carpet about it........he made up alot of excuses, then made a fuss when the Range Masters told him he was done because of it. The guy has no class, and many of writings are suspect.

    They guy has wore out his welcome in alot of the L.E. circles across the nation......... he's no longer thought of so highly as he was many years ago.
     
  17. robctwo

    robctwo rural North Albany Member

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    When the police come to talk to you about something you might have done, you can talk to them and hope things work out, or you can say "I didn't do anything wrong, and I'd like to talk to my attorney now".

    Your choice.

    It is really difficult to prove that the police wrote down the statement you made incorrectly.

    Not all police lie. Some do, some just don't remember accurately. They are working from a perspective that may not be in your best interest. Cheap shots against defense attorneys are fun, I guess. I will still try to share information for those who are interested. For those who want to rely on their own experience, good luck.
     
  18. jib

    jib Central OR Active Member

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    Amen !
    I learned that the hard way. Once is enough.
    Just zip it !
     
  19. michaels

    michaels oregon Active Member

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    Good stuff!

    Didn't help with the insomnia, but i like how it's really well explained.

    Just remember 4 things..... (3 statements and behavoir)

    1) am i free to go?

    2) I do not consent to a search

    3) I want to speak with an attorney

    4) Respect and good manners

    always cooperate with the police.

    Excersizing your rights is not contradictary to cooperation.
     
  20. chase

    chase Wilsonville, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    This is good stuff. I cant stand the silence, I must comment...