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The last thing a person should do.. is to insert themselves and their gun into a violent or criminal situation when they have no accurate information about what is really going on.

If you dont believe me, ask George Zimmerman how well trying to be a hero worked out for him.....
 
About 13 years ago, I was a 23 year old living in SE Portland. I had an incident where I heard sounds that indicated a violent, physical altercation outside my home. I ran outside, and found that a man was viciously beating a woman, right on the sidewalk at 52nd & Holgate (I briefly lived in one of those quadplexes). He had a fist full of her hair in his left hand, and was punching her with his right hand. She was visibly losing her ability to focus of defense.

I ran over, yelling as I approached. He turned to face me, without letting go of her hair. He swore at me, and threatened me. It occurred to me that I may suffer for taking action, but I couldn't let her get beaten.

I advanced. He let go of her, and squared up. I told her to run for help.

He moved to engage me. At that point in life, I was very arrogant. I was a personal trainer, with a lot of martial arts training and real fights behind me. I had this stupid idea that I would hit him to get him off balance, and then grapple him and hold him until the police showed up.

This idea involved somebody actually calling 9-1-1, which I assumed would happen. It did not.

People who don't know how to fight tend to throw loopy punches, and are generally unaccustomed to being hit. They often rely on overwhelming people through explosive violence. This is to say, he tried to hit me, and got a wake up call to the face. As he buckled, I yelled at the woman to get help, and started to try to establish control of the man.

Here's where things went sideways.

The beaten woman didn't run. In fact, she started hitting me. Thankfully, she had no idea what she was doing. After a moment of trying to simultaneously control the man and turtle against her slap attack, I rolled off of him and backed away.

They were both crying and screaming at me. I was speechless.

I didn't say anything clever or awesome. I just stood there, trying to wrap my head around the fact that this woman was yelling at me to "leave him alone" in defense of a man who had just been beating her senseless in public.

After a few minutes, I simply walked away.

The police never came. None of the cars driving by stopped. Admittedly, I didn't call the police, either. In retrospect, I suppose that I should have called them to report the incident.

There are a lot of broken and apathetic people in the world. At this point, it's cultural. In the Age of the Lawsuit, taking action can ruin your life. It's also inconvenient.

This stuff is disheartening to think about. As a parent, I try to teach my kids about a tipping point. This point is where you realize that personal cost is outweighed by the necessity to take action. That tipping point is in different places for all of us, but the most important thing is to think about it, and to be aware of where yours is. This is especially critical for those who have the means of presenting lethal force.

Sorry for writing so much. That event was a developmental landmark for me.

More cops are hurt or shot going to domestic disturbances than about any other calls they go to.

_______________________________
At my age I shoot forward a lot better than I run backward.
Rearward movement is only used for a forward Advantage and better sight alignment !
 
Rbid - That's a BS story and goes back to the time of the caveman, where the reason you don't get into a fight to save a chick is because she will fight you. My father told me a similar story from NY back in the 40s, a coworker about being at some bar, it's complete crap.

At the end of the day, when neighbors will sit back and watch people get hurt, making excuses why they don't step in, it just means they are cowards.

I've confronted people, even did a citizen's arrest. Still here, having gotten sued nor butt raped nor arrested.

A coward dies a thousands deaths before it actually happens. Head over to Glock talk, they love to talk guns and come up with a thousand reasons not to save lives.

The best part of true life experiences is that they don't un-happen when people don't believe them.
 
In my opinion, if you want a good neighbor, be a great neighbor. The benefits of knowing your neighbor extend into numerous places. If you are kind of person who doesn't work at forming solid relationships with your neighbors, you're missing out on some mutually beneficial household and financial possibilities. Take a glimpse at here.

How about just knowing your neighbor well, and if they are upstanding people you will naturally form relationships that will benefit both sides without expecting it to happen, or expecting some kind of financial return...bean counting and keeping score are for manipulative people.
 
About 13 years ago, I was a 23 year old living in SE Portland. I had an incident where I heard sounds that indicated a violent, physical altercation outside my home. I ran outside, and found that a man was viciously beating a woman, right on the sidewalk at 52nd & Holgate (I briefly lived in one of those quadplexes). He had a fist full of her hair in his left hand, and was punching her with his right hand. She was visibly losing her ability to focus of defense.
.

I had nearly an identical thing happen in Portland. I was there for business and came around a corner while returning to my hotel to see a guy standing on this girl's neck. She was screaming, crying, and swatting at him and he just kept standing there talking on his phone. I reacted without thinking, figuring I could knock him down and hold him off while she went for help. I knocked him down alright. And then they both got up and started attacking me. It turns out that he was her pimp. And if either had had a real weapon I would have been done for. After a few seconds, I retreated and before I was out of site they were screaming at each other again.

I still can't imagine standing idly by while someone gets hurt. But I do take enough time to assess these days. Who else is there? Can I really handle the situation or am I biting off more than I can chew? Are my assumptions valid enough to get involved? This only takes a second or two but can make all the difference.
 
"A friend in need is a friend, in~deed"

One "Makes Friends" It is something that is Created, and Earned.
Do not rely on a Neighbor to be a Friend Never rely on a neighbor.
About 17 years ago a GI whose family lived off base near Tacoma was having a 4th July BBQ (or some such event) and was confronted by a local gang. Said Trooper felt threatened, made a call to his NCOIC. Somehow a large group of AB types found themselves armed and arriving on his door step, shots were exchanged with the local BGs for a noticeable amount of time, but everything was cool when the local PoPo arrived.
Was there a SH^tstorm raining down on those Troops come Monday morning? Yes there was, were stripes lost? Yes there were! NO One was left in doubt as to the true bond of friendship displayed that day.
 
I still can't imagine standing idly by while someone gets hurt. But I do take enough time to assess these days. Who else is there? Can I really handle the situation or am I biting off more than I can chew? Are my assumptions valid enough to get involved? This only takes a second or two but can make all the difference.

This is related to my comments about a tipping point. I don't advocate letting evil happen as a rule, but the fact of the matter is that we have to take that moment to read what is happening, and make sure our response is appropriate. This is especially critical if we're carrying a firearm.

An easy example for each of us could simply be yelling, "I'm calling 9-1-1!" to break the activity up. If that fails to get a pause, we know that the situation is especially escalated, and we can testify accordingly if need be.
 
" I just stood there, trying to wrap my head around the fact that this woman was yelling at me to "leave him alone" in defense of a man who had just been beating her senseless in public."

This is exactly why LEOs show up two, three, four+ at a time on a domestic call. Sometimes people are just plan batsh** crazy...
 
All of this talk about helping people gets me wound up. By nature I would defend somebody who is helpless against an attacker. Two men duking it out? On their own. Gal on the ground getting pummeled.... I would have to step in. It's my nature. In no way am I coming across as a tough guy. In fact I've never had to take a punch in my life. I'm glad.


My biggest problem with the statements of "I heard some noise in the street.. " take a listen outside in communities with kids.


I cannot stand the constant screaming of kids when they are outside. How in the hell are we supposed to know if some kid was just abducted? How are we to know if an assault is happening when those sounds would be similar to neighborhood kids screaming for no reason?

Hmmm..... How am I supposed to help?
Numerous times I've gotten up, went outside to see WTH is going on only to find the kids from down the way yelling and screaming.
 
By my count roughly 95% of the forum members on this thread have detailed how they wouldn't step in to help someone else in dire need.

While I could get self righteous, admonishing...I won't, as it's come to no shock to me that most people are douchebags. That's not a cynical view, but one of reality, hence I don't lose sleep over it any more, about how life should be vs how it is.

Ponder that the next time you walk in and get boned on your transmission, how you go banko over medical bills, why your wife cheats on you, why your kids take drugs, why your friends are addicts, why you can't trust to loan anyone $20, and certainly why you might die on your front door step because your amoral coward neighbours watch, all you have to do is look in the mirror for the reasons.
 
Hmmm..... How am I supposed to help?
Numerous times I've gotten up, went outside to see WTH is going on only to find the kids from down the way yelling and screaming.

But at least you got up and looked out. And you will probably do it again. That shows at least a minimum level of compassion for your fellow man. Curious neighbors are good neighbors. Nobody goes to my neighbors with out me watching them real close at first.
 
By my count roughly 95% of the forum members on this thread have detailed how they wouldn't step in to help someone else in dire need.

While I could get self righteous, admonishing...I won't, as it's come to no shock to me that most people are douchebags. That's not a cynical view, but one of reality, hence I don't lose sleep over it any more, about how life should be vs how it is.

Ponder that the next time you walk in and get boned on your transmission, how you go banko over medical bills, why your wife cheats on you, why your kids take drugs, why your friends are addicts, why you can't trust to loan anyone $20, and certainly why you might die on your front door step because your amoral coward neighbours watch, all you have to do is look in the mirror for the reasons.

I think you're misreading a lot in this thread. Much of it isn't about not helping. It's about discretion.

Example:
If you see an altercation taking place that appears likely to involve drug influenced behavior on both sides, getting involved is unlikely to be beneficial to anyone involved.

On the other hand, seeing a child struck by a parent is an event that I think most of us would react to immediately.


Evaluation is not the same as inaction.
 
I think you're misreading a lot in this thread. Much of it isn't about not helping. It's about discretion.

Example:
If you see an altercation taking place that appears likely to involve drug influenced behavior on both sides, getting involved is unlikely to be beneficial to anyone involved.

On the other hand, seeing a child struck by a parent is an event that I think most of us would react to immediately.


Evaluation is not the same as inaction.

No one on this thread said 'I will evaluate the situation and act accordingly' rather it was a litany of rationalizations and excuses for not stepping in. You can pretend you don't live in a world of cowards, I don't. The very best I can expect from the forum members here is to call 911, after having ran away, safely observing from 10 miles away, in a hardened bunker, huddled together for validation and support with the other women and children.
 
Why everyone is dishing this out, lets get your testosterone in check.

If you enter into a combative situation ( carrying a firearm ) you will quickly find your self behind bars.
You are going to have one heck of a time explaining why you ( not a cop ) engaged the defense of another with a firearm. ( because when cops show up all they will be focused on is the one with the firearm ) And if you are the only one with one ......hmmmm well good luck.
You better have a very very good reason to jump on in. Oregon and WA laws are pretty clear when engaging is allowed, threat of deadly force. Two people fighting is not. Where I live you could probably get by even brandishing to safe a person from a beating. But in other places in these states jumping in to fight with a firearm could put you in hot water. ( just keep in mind you do not even need to pull a gun simply carrying it and engaging in an assault gets complicated quickly.

Yours is the cowards mantra...don't do nothing, because the big bad world will punish you for trying to be a good guy.
 
The last thing a person should do.. is to insert themselves and their gun into a violent or criminal situation when they have no accurate information about what is really going on.

If you dont believe me, ask George Zimmerman how well trying to be a hero worked out for him.....

Like one who grabs a dog by the ears is he who meddles in a quarrel not his own.
(forum rules prevent me from supplying the source of this quote...so as not to offend the offenders)
 
I think that the bottom line for me is that we are all responsible for our own safety. I can't be responsible for the safety of others. If I can help, I will, but what I won't do is put my life in danger. I have kids that depend on me and I would hate to have them grow up with no dad, but a nice story about how daddy died trying to help someone.

Thank God a coward as yourself was never, I hope, in the Fire Service.
 
The only person I ever really counted on was myself. It is nice if other people help, but you can't count on them. I had partners who were there to help 100% of the time when the chips were down (if they were there), but I never wanted to count on it lest they be otherwise engaged. It sure was nice when they came to help in the fight, and if they were there, they ALWAYS came to help...the problem is that they couldn't always be there.
 

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