Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Don't count on your neighbors for help

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by joe bratch, Jul 16, 2013.

  1. joe bratch

    joe bratch PNW New Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    23
    The Zim case re-affirmed what I went through about 7 years ago when I was confronted by two bid dudes, big confrontation, and none of my neighbours came out to help. This was a big deal, lot's of yelling.

    In Zims case, there was a neighbour that watched the fight, others heard it, and didn't come out to help. I know of a girl that was raped where a neighbour heard it, did nothing. I know another girl who's BF doesn't walk her home at night, even after being stalked.

    Well live in a world of spineless cowards, Zim's case reaffirms this.
     
  2. tunus

    tunus PDX, United States Active Member

    Messages:
    231
    Likes Received:
    204
    While there are plenty of spineless cowards out there, many operate under the assumption that "no good deed goes unpunished". While I like to think that any of these people will at least alert the authorities, I cannot blame them for not wanting to get involved. Unless somebody was in obvious and direct life-threatening situation, I would also only get the police alerted and have them deal with it. Now if it is a life-threatening situation, I hope to be able to keep calm and defuse as quickly as possible.
     
  3. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,259
    Likes Received:
    3,069
    Does Kitty Genovese ring any bells? (If not Google the name)
     
  4. DireWolf

    DireWolf Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    192
    Maybe your neighbors just don't like you. Or at least not enough to care if you get into a shouting match.
     
  5. Dunerunner

    Dunerunner You'll Never Know Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,476
    Likes Received:
    1,234
    Never heard this story....

    More reason women should learn to shoot and carry concealed.
     
    Caveman Jim and (deleted member) like this.
  6. sheepdip

    sheepdip Redland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    there are very few people that you can count on in times of trouble, fortunately I have several.
     
  7. BigStick

    BigStick Sherwood, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    513
    Likes Received:
    302
    It is a scary thing getting involved in someone else's confrontation. You inevitably are behind the curve on information, and look where trying to help his neighbors got GZ. That being said, I don't think I could stand by and watch something bad go down in front of my house. I am not naive enough to believe that everyone else feels the same. It is part of the sad decline in our society.
     
  8. joe bratch

    joe bratch PNW New Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    23
    Yeah, this forum is really full of stand up guys isn't it?
     
  9. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,914
    Likes Received:
    1,298
    I'll call the police for you :thumbup:
     
  10. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

    Messages:
    5,969
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    My ingrained desire to help others, to play hero will be my downfall. Just not the type to stand by and watch, and yes, fully aware that no good deed goes unpunished. I do draw the line at playing Batman though. My carry piece is to defend my life only. Defense only. Not out to stop a bank robber for instance. No way. Not trained nor do I collect a salary to do that.

    If you are helpless and starving I will probably feed you, then your pal, your kid ... and we can then all starve together.
     
    rocky3, Dyjital, biggie24420 and 7 others like this.
  11. tkdguy

    tkdguy Portland, Oregon Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    1,097
    Likes Received:
    529
    It was the subject of considerable social psychological research after the event about 1964. Conversely, "mob, group behaviors that individuals would not do on their own, transfer to the mob or group mentality. Specifically, individuals who would not ever engage in a behavior due to their consciousness, will loose that self-regulating or self-policing mechanism and engage in "mob mentality" and commit behaviors that they would never perform otherwise.
     
  12. Brutus57

    Brutus57 Skagit County Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,427
    Likes Received:
    5,690
    Communicate, Mediate, Ultimate, Excommunicate... I won't stand by idly without making sure the cops are on the way and first try to defuse the situation. Otherwise if my life or that of another is in grave danger...then the above evolution takes place.

    I am no hero but the way I was raised you do the best you can to prevent suffering.
    Use of heat is a Last Resort
    Brutus out
     
  13. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    5,759
    If i didn't hear it at first, all my neighbors would have to do is yell, call or text and Id be out there to be a witness or to help deescalate the situation.
    We have a real good ear for stuff like that. If an altercation is anywhere near my house we're usually out the door to see or loom out the windows with phone in hand.
    (Gang activity not too long ago)
     
  14. BoonDocks36

    BoonDocks36 Oregon, in the boondocks Christian. Conservative. Male.

    Messages:
    1,561
    Likes Received:
    2,174
    I vividly remember that News Report, but my story is of my Older Brother (RIP).

    Jerry always got picked on, in the late Fifties, and by the Sixties, could deck you faster than you just glancing at the chip on his shoulder, from the Fifties!!!

    Well this event, was Right after "Kitty Genovese", he is walking home, see's a Big Guy doing to a smaller guy, what Z got... Head bashing onto concrete.

    Now my big brother Knew both of them, and so comes to the Very Needed RESCUE, of he smaller boy. Procedes to Pick Up Big Guy, toss him onto grass. Helps little guy HOME, so he gets Safe & First Aid Help.

    That Night, a LEO Knocks on our door, with an Arrest Warrent, for my BB. Mom is mortified, Dad is angered, we all sit and discuss those above events. The Bad Guys ~mommy~ (yep BG is a mommies boy) presses Assault Charges, for my brother literally saving the young boys life... (There was a concussion and Lots of stitches, we found out later)...

    MY POINT? Jerry Eyeballs the LEO, and says "would you arrest me if I had STOPPED the ~Kitty Genovese~ Rape, and I was "older" than the rapist????

    LEO's jaw dropps, is speechless. This is NOT his first time at our house, many Non-Arrests, but "watch your step" type interactions.... This is the First arrest. For Helping Save a Life.

    End of Story... The Judge says to my Brother: "son, what you did was good, how you did it, is why you are in Court. I do NOT want to send you to Juvie.... Would you consider Joining our Military? They NEED men like you. Brother had Just turned 17.5 YO, and Dad signed the papers for Naval Enlistment the next day.

    ME? I would do the same. I will Not Stand by & see innocent victims beaten to a pulp. I may someday die, for intervention of same... But I will ACT THUS knowing so.

    Any ~man~ who would Not Come to AID of a defenseless person is not worthy to the Title "Man" IMNSHO.... That would be a girly/boy, no insult meant to Woman there either... I know some who would Stand beside me in the help, or back to back if it got to that point.

    philip,
    In the Boondocks, Women & Children are protected by Real Men.
     
  15. AimeeJeen

    AimeeJeen Los Angeles, CA New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    2
    In my opinion, if you want a good neighbor, be a great neighbor. The benefits of knowing your neighbor extend into numerous places. If you are kind of person who doesn't work at forming solid relationships with your neighbors, you're missing out on some mutually beneficial household and financial possibilities. Take a glimpse at here.
     
  16. RBid

    RBid Wilsonville, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    318
    About 13 years ago, I was a 23 year old living in SE Portland. I had an incident where I heard sounds that indicated a violent, physical altercation outside my home. I ran outside, and found that a man was viciously beating a woman, right on the sidewalk at 52nd & Holgate (I briefly lived in one of those quadplexes). He had a fist full of her hair in his left hand, and was punching her with his right hand. She was visibly losing her ability to focus of defense.

    I ran over, yelling as I approached. He turned to face me, without letting go of her hair. He swore at me, and threatened me. It occurred to me that I may suffer for taking action, but I couldn't let her get beaten.

    I advanced. He let go of her, and squared up. I told her to run for help.

    He moved to engage me. At that point in life, I was very arrogant. I was a personal trainer, with a lot of martial arts training and real fights behind me. I had this stupid idea that I would hit him to get him off balance, and then grapple him and hold him until the police showed up.

    This idea involved somebody actually calling 9-1-1, which I assumed would happen. It did not.

    People who don't know how to fight tend to throw loopy punches, and are generally unaccustomed to being hit. They often rely on overwhelming people through explosive violence. This is to say, he tried to hit me, and got a wake up call to the face. As he buckled, I yelled at the woman to get help, and started to try to establish control of the man.

    Here's where things went sideways.

    The beaten woman didn't run. In fact, she started hitting me. Thankfully, she had no idea what she was doing. After a moment of trying to simultaneously control the man and turtle against her slap attack, I rolled off of him and backed away.

    They were both crying and screaming at me. I was speechless.

    I didn't say anything clever or awesome. I just stood there, trying to wrap my head around the fact that this woman was yelling at me to "leave him alone" in defense of a man who had just been beating her senseless in public.

    After a few minutes, I simply walked away.

    The police never came. None of the cars driving by stopped. Admittedly, I didn't call the police, either. In retrospect, I suppose that I should have called them to report the incident.

    There are a lot of broken and apathetic people in the world. At this point, it's cultural. In the Age of the Lawsuit, taking action can ruin your life. It's also inconvenient.

    This stuff is disheartening to think about. As a parent, I try to teach my kids about a tipping point. This point is where you realize that personal cost is outweighed by the necessity to take action. That tipping point is in different places for all of us, but the most important thing is to think about it, and to be aware of where yours is. This is especially critical for those who have the means of presenting lethal force.

    Sorry for writing so much. That event was a developmental landmark for me.
     
  17. Burt Gummer

    Burt Gummer Portland Completely Out of Ammo

    Messages:
    5,969
    Likes Received:
    5,495
    Glad you didn't call the police. The trailer trash would have claimed you attacked them and you would be going for a ride in the back of the police car. No good deed goes unpunished. You played Batman and almost got severely punished for it.
     
    1 person likes this.
  18. osterr1999

    osterr1999 Silverton, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    451
    Likes Received:
    234
    I think that the bottom line for me is that we are all responsible for our own safety. I can't be responsible for the safety of others. If I can help, I will, but what I won't do is put my life in danger. I have kids that depend on me and I would hate to have them grow up with no dad, but a nice story about how daddy died trying to help someone.
     
  19. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

    Messages:
    2,802
    Likes Received:
    1,857
    As RBid found out, when you step in, you're now a combatant, and you're fair game to anyone.

    There's right and wrong, and then there's the law. Until johnny law wants to start looking at right and wrong instead of just the law there's really no point in doing right, and there can be some strong benefits to doing wrong.
     
  20. joe bratch

    joe bratch PNW New Member

    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    23
    Rbid - That's a BS story and goes back to the time of the caveman, where the reason you don't get into a fight to save a chick is because she will fight you. My father told me a similar story from NY back in the 40s, a coworker about being at some bar, it's complete crap.

    At the end of the day, when neighbors will sit back and watch people get hurt, making excuses why they don't step in, it just means they are cowards.

    I've confronted people, even did a citizen's arrest. Still here, having gotten sued nor butt raped nor arrested.

    A coward dies a thousands deaths before it actually happens. Head over to Glock talk, they love to talk guns and come up with a thousand reasons not to save lives.