Don't be like this person - fires gun in purse

[CLT65]

To clarify my long-winded and poorly worded post above, I just want to add that I DO believe that the right thing to do, if you're going to carry, is get training and learn to carry properly and safely, and carry chambered.

My point was just that there are those who are going to carry, but aren't going to go to the effort of doing it right, no matter how much we would like them to. For their safety and mine, I would rather they didn't have a round chambered. I'd much rather have them learn to do it right though.

My other comments were just that I don't feel that everyone really needs to carry, not all the time. I think it's better to not carry at all than to do it wrong.

 

[RVTECH]

and I've learned to just stay silent if my own opinion is not the "correct" one.

I think you mean the 'popular' one.

 

[Catfishmoon]

To me the argument that a person should only carry in condition 1 is wrong, a handgun in any form on your body is preferable to no having no firearm with you. It's similar to the premise of unless you are packing a large caliber like .45acp, no sense bothering with having any gun with you.
Personally, I think situational awareness is more important than how quickly you can discharge your firearm from the holster or the caliber being fired.

 

[titsonritz]

I speculate that the trigger was not protected - that is not in a holster of some kind.


ex.
View attachment 1072336

Wasn't sure, are you bagging on these or suggesting them?

 

[CLT65]

Personally, I think situational awareness is more important than how quickly you can discharge your firearm from the holster or the caliber being fired.

I agree about the importance of awareness! My wife doesn't carry, most likely never will. My oldest is old enough to be out going places and doing things on her own, but not old enough to carry (probably won't either).

I've taught them both about awareness: where not to park your car, how to walk with a purpose, always paying attention to your surroundings, things like that. For those who can't or won't carry, awareness is the next best thing, or perhaps rather the first best thing even before carrying.

 

[Member 53328]

To those that argue "you will have enough time to rack the slide" I pose this question….. If someone is carrying condition 3 due to the fact they are uncomfortable carrying a loaded gun (condition 1) do you truly think they are proficient enough to rack the slide under duress and engage? Serious question. Even if the threat isn't directly pointed or engaged with them personally? You truly believe that person is going to load his or her firearm and effectively engage another individual? I think they will be more of a liability then an asset. Have you seen a brand new gun owner fumble their way through racking a slide? Now add stress. I'm just going to say I have my doubts and I truly hope I am not in the same room when that individual decides to throw their cape on and play hero. Cause just carrying a gun whether it's condition 1, 3, or 4 doesn't give you some unknown power where all of a sudden you will just "operate." You don't rise to the occasion instead you fall to your highest level of training.

I know it's not popular or uncommon but I struggle with justifying or comforting others who carrying in this manner. The mentality of an unloaded gun is better than no gun boggles my mind. I think at that point you'd rather have a knife. You could close the distance and do more damage in the time a slide was racked after being pulled.

Again it's America. Do what you want. But I think some of the encouragement is dangerous and reckless. Especially to new gun owners.

 

[Xaevian]

Well, on the other hand, how many negligent discharges included a loaded chamber?


No need to struggle, I will answer for you:


ALL OF THEM.

 

[sobo]

You don't rise to the occasion instead you fall to your highest lowest level of training.

Fixed it fer ya...

 

[solv3nt]

Well, on the other hand, how many negligent discharges included a loaded chamber?


No need to struggle, I will answer for you:


ALL OF THEM.

 

[Member 53328]

Fixed it fer ya...

Appreciated. Lol.

 

[Member 53328]

Well, on the other hand, how many negligent discharges included a loaded chamber?


No need to struggle, I will answer for you:


ALL OF THEM.

So we are gunna put the blame on the tool rather than the user?

 

[solv3nt]

So we are gunna put the blame on the tool rather than the user?

I'm confused, are you calling the user a tool?

 

[Member 53328]

I'm confused, are you calling the user a tool?

Tool = gun
User = individual who caused the ND

 

[RVTECH]

To those that argue "you will have enough time to rack the slide" I pose this question….. If someone is carrying condition 3 due to the fact they are uncomfortable carrying a loaded gun (condition 1) do you truly think they are proficient enough to rack the slide under duress and engage?

This is a bit judgmental and not based in any reality.

What is to say the person is 'uncomfortable' carrying in condition 1? They may be VERY proficient yet choose NOT to carry with one in the chamber - check 'Israeli carry' on this.

Experience and proficiency does NOT predicate what a person chooses to do, or should do, or dictate how they choose to carry. No one has the right to express this as a fact - regardless of their own 'personal experience'.

The mentality of an unloaded gun is better than no gun boggles my mind

I assume you mean by 'mentality of an unloaded gun' you are referring to a gun carried with an empty chamber. An empty chamber does NOT equate to an 'unloaded' gun. A full mag in the well is a 'loaded' gun - and a gun carried without one in the chamber is still a loaded gun.

 

[Member 53328]

This is a bit judgmental and not based in any reality.

What is to say the person is 'uncomfortable' carrying in condition 1? They may be VERY proficient yet choose NOT to carry with one in the chamber - check 'Israeli carry' on this.

Experience and proficiency does NOT predicate what a person chooses to do, or should do, or dictate how they choose to carry. No one has the right to express this as a fact - regardless of their own 'personal experience'.


I assume you mean by 'mentality of an unloaded gun' you are referring to a gun carried with an empty chamber. An empty chamber does NOT equate to an 'unloaded' gun. A full mag in the well is a 'loaded' gun - and a gun carried without one in the chamber is still a loaded gun.

I was waiting for someone to bring up the Israeli carry. Those guys and gals TRAIN. What would be a good reason to not carry one in the chamber? Another serious question.

And to me (IMO) if you have to rack a slide to LOAD the firearm then that would mean before that action took place the firearm was UNLOADED. How many rounds that are in the mag means nothing.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

$5 it wasn't a revolver.

It has been know to happen

Man accidentally shoots himself in the leg while bowling

A man shot himself in the leg at a busy Florida bowling alley after accidentally firing a gun in his pocket. Cops think the bowler went to swing the ball — but bashed it on his limb — w…

www.nydailynews.com

 

[Xaevian]

So we are gunna put the blame on the tool rather than the user?

No, just a lot of idiots out there...


And the less dangerous they are, the safer everybody else is.

But, you are missing the point. I'd say not answering the question, but I did that for everyone.

There are pros and cons to everything, even if bias hides them from view.

 

[Member 53328]

No, just a lot of idiots out there...


And the less dangerous they are, the safer everybody else is.

But, you are missing the point. I'd say not answering the question, but I did that for everyone.

There are pros and cons to everything, even if bias hides them from view.

Agreed. I may be overlooking some things. I look at things through the lenses of carrying. But I agree with you when it comes to the "idiots" out there. If they are gunna carry i'd much rather have the magazine be empty or no round in the chamber. At times I look at things very black and white and get tied up in my own opinions. Thanks for bringing that up.

 

[Xaevian]

This ones on me, Marine.

 

[CLT65]

The mentality of an unloaded gun is better than no gun boggles my mind.

I think I understand your point, and I don't necessarily disagree, but my literal mind says that I'd much rather have a gun with a full magazine and empty chamber, if threatened, than no gun at all. I understand full well that you won't always have time to rack the slide, but by the same token you won't always not have time.

When I first got my CHL, a long time ago, I wasn't comfortable carrying with a chambered round (except revolvers, somehow I was fine with that). Then kids came along and I wasn't terribly comfortable carrying at all while juggling diaper bags and little ones.

I made what seemed a logical choice. I knew that if I needed it instantly, it may be useless, but all other times it would still be useful. The extra layer of safety (empty chamber) seemed a reasonable tradeoff for losing the safety of having it available instantly.

I'd been shooting handguns for a very long time, and was quite confident of being able to chamber a round and hit my target in a stressful situation, but feared something bad happening with my kids if little fingers got ahold of that gun. A moment of inattention could have consequences that scared me far worse than a bad guy jumping me, and I really wanted that extra layer of safety that the empty chamber provided. That was my thinking at the time. I still can't fault anyone for feeling that way, other that saying that if you're worried about that happening, maybe you shouldn't carry at all until you can make sure that it never will.

My kids are getting older now, and I've seen the videos of self-defense encounters where the defender survives only by being able to react instantly, so I do see the wisdom in being chambered. More than that, I see the wisdom in training to a level where you're confident enough that you can safely carrying fully loaded.

I was talking to a LEO friend a while back, and said that I didn't particularly like to carry a gun, because of the responsibility. He opined that that was a good thing, and that it was the people who carry without feeling that responsibility that concern him. A huge part of that responsibility is being trained enough to do it safely.