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First and foremost, I want to once again thank those of you who have donated. I've received numerous message afterward wishing you could do more and I want to reassure you, every little bit helps! :s0155:

As most of you know, Northwest Firearms relies on donations and ad revenue to cover our operating expenses. Over the past year our donations have dropped off by a substantial amount while both expenses and the number of members using of ad blockers have increased. This past month we were very close to running in the red. I'm starting this thread because I'd like to get some ideas regarding what we can do (or do differently) to raise money and/or encourage people to donate.

We've tried a few different things with varied levels of success. This past January we brought back the Supporting Member Giveaways to say thank you to those of you who have donated and in hopes that we'd raise additional funds. Though we can't sell tickets and hold 'actual raffles' (we do not have non-profit status), these have been fairly successful. Last month we took a poll and (based on member feedback) invested the money to do a run of Northwest Firearms branded lower receivers. Unfortunately, these aren't selling as quickly as we had hoped. Once we recoup the money from these we're going to consider other merchandise, but to be honest we've never done particularly well with these sort of things. I think we have enough ads; I refuse to turn this into one of those sites no matter how much money it brings. In the past we've held donation drives where we've simply asked for money. Though these were incredibly successful, I always feel like I'm holding a sign next to an on-ramp :D:s0051:

The area where I'm especially interested in gaining some insight is with the Supporting Member perks. Did these factor into your decision to donate, or did you donate simply to support Northwest Firearms? Which do you find most valuable? Any additional features you'd like to see added?

To let the community know where we are with donations we've developed a new Monthly Donation Goal sidebar block, displaying both our progress toward our goal and the number of donations we've received so far. We're also putting the finishing touches on our <broken link removed>, allowing members to purchase upgrades for each other. It's working now, and we'll further promote it once it's out of beta.

Forgive me if this post is a bit disorganized, I'm brainstorming publicly here. I look forward to hearing your ideas and feedback :)
 
First and foremost, I want to once again thank those of you who have donated. I've received numerous message afterward wishing you could do more and I want to reassure you, every little bit helps! :s0155:

As most of you know, Northwest Firearms relies on donations and ad revenue to cover our operating expenses. Over the past year our donations have dropped off by a substantial amount while both expenses and the number of members using of ad blockers have increased. This past month we were very close to running in the red. I'm starting this thread because I'd like to get some ideas regarding what we can do (or do differently) to raise money and/or encourage people to donate.

We've tried a few different things with varied levels of success. This past January we brought back the Supporting Member Giveaways to say thank you to those of you who have donated and in hopes that we'd raise additional funds. Though we can't sell tickets and hold 'actual raffles' (we do not have non-profit status), these have been fairly successful. Last month we took a poll and (based on member feedback) invested the money to do a run of Northwest Firearms branded lower receivers. Unfortunately, these aren't selling as quickly as we had hoped. Once we recoup the money from these we're going to consider other merchandise, but to be honest we've never done particularly well with these sort of things. I think we have enough ads; I refuse to turn this into one of those sites no matter how much money it brings. In the past we've held donation drives where we've simply asked for money. Though these were incredibly successful, I always feel like I'm holding a sign next to an on-ramp :D:s0051:

The area where I'm especially interested in gaining some insight is with the Supporting Member perks. Did these factor into your decision to donate, or did you donate simply to support Northwest Firearms? Which do you find most valuable? Any additional features you'd like to see added?

To let the community know where we are with donations we've developed a new Monthly Donation Goal sidebar block, displaying both our progress toward our goal and the number of donations we've received so far. We're also putting the finishing touches on our <broken link removed>, allowing members to purchase upgrades for each other. It's working now, and we'll further promote it once it's out of beta.

Forgive me if this post is a bit disorganized, I'm brainstorming publicly here. I look forward to hearing your ideas and feedback :)

I'm sorry to hear the lowers havent sold out yet:(.

As far as membership donation goes I would increase mine if at all possible and enjoy the perks even the lowest tier membership adds to my site enjoyment.

Don't feel like your holding up a sign begging;) websites that run as well as this one does take a ton of monthly revenue.

As far as ordering merchandise, only from reading the thread, it seems right now people are looking for the best value they can get and don't want to pay extra for a logo now that it's been ordered (as opposed to the vast intrest in them while in the planning stages). I personally think the lowers are awesome:cool:.


The Ammo bulk buy last year was fairly successful and there was a huge value in buying in that kind of bulk. Now I'm not sure if a bulk by of Ammo or AR triggers or optics of some kind (minus the logo to keep the cost low) might work better because there is no FFL stuff to worry about. BUT that's a large amount of money to invest at the start and the need for a lot of storage space.

It's hard to beat the online sales so I'm not sure what would be the most lucrative but it's obvious people will keep buying from palmetto even with some bad feedback and even personal bad experiences but to quote many people "I'll keep ordering from them because it's the best bang for the buck".

Bug out/or home bags are very popular still but I think more people would rather build their own.


It is too bad you can't buy an AR and sell raffle tickets for it - that would sell and make money quickly. (Unless you could "give" ticket to people who make "donations" each month for 1 ticket for every $10 donated and cap the number of tickets available... Seems like there would have to be a way to use a loophole for that.

That's all I got for right now...
 
I tend to just donate to support the site and I rarely participate in the giveaways and suchlike. Once, I think. Like Joe13, I'd like to give more, but fixed income. Good luck figuring out the finances! :)
 
I'd give support with or without the incentives. I'd rather let someone else have a giveaway. It's worth it to me for the quality of the forum discussions and the "fellowship of the gun". That's what earns my support.
 
I still think the classified section should be pay to play. I know I wouldn't mind paying a few extra dollars for something knowing the funds would go to help support this website. Say non supporting members have to pay 5% of total sale and supporting members pay 2%. (those are just example percentages)
I see soooooo many people just pop on this website just to sell something...Because the classified section has a HUGE amount of traffic! And its free.
 
I still think the classified section should be pay to play. I know I wouldn't mind paying a few extra dollars for something knowing the funds would go to help support this website. Say non supporting members have to pay 5% of total sale and supporting members pay 2%. (those are just example percentages)
I see soooooo many people just pop on this website just to sell something...Because the classified section has a HUGE amount of traffic! And its free.

I think that would have to be voluntary and not mandatory or you will see that traffic migrate to a free site quickly - regardless of adding content to the site it still adds traffic and that translates to more income from advertisers.

I could be wrong though.

Personally, as of today I need every penny I can make from here and a few other sites (not that I have a lot posted), that will turn around one day and I'll be more then happy to send donations to the site but I'm back to a few bucks may not mean much to many here but it's the difference between having the gas to get to work for my wife and school for my kid (and no that's seriously not an exaggeration - I can't even afford to spend $2 on a stupid app:().

But that's my personal problem and not the case for most here so if it went to a price per $ sold or set price to list something I wouldn't complain about it.
 
I'm sorry to hear the lowers havent sold out yet:(.

As far as membership donation goes I would increase mine if at all possible and enjoy the perks even the lowest tier membership adds to my site enjoyment.

Don't feel like your holding up a sign begging;) websites that run as well as this one does take a ton of monthly revenue.

As far as ordering merchandise, only from reading the thread, it seems right now people are looking for the best value they can get and don't want to pay extra for a logo now that it's been ordered (as opposed to the vast intrest in them while in the planning stages). I personally think the lowers are awesome:cool:.


The Ammo bulk buy last year was fairly successful and there was a huge value in buying in that kind of bulk. Now I'm not sure if a bulk by of Ammo or AR triggers or optics of some kind (minus the logo to keep the cost low) might work better because there is no FFL stuff to worry about. BUT that's a large amount of money to invest at the start and the need for a lot of storage space.

It's hard to beat the online sales so I'm not sure what would be the most lucrative but it's obvious people will keep buying from palmetto even with some bad feedback and even personal bad experiences but to quote many people "I'll keep ordering from them because it's the best bang for the buck".

Bug out/or home bags are very popular still but I think more people would rather build their own.


It is too bad you can't buy an AR and sell raffle tickets for it - that would sell and make money quickly. (Unless you could "give" ticket to people who make "donations" each month for 1 ticket for every $10 donated and cap the number of tickets available... Seems like there would have to be a way to use a loophole for that.

That's all I got for right now...

It's all good. I didn't expect we'd sell out of the lowers immediately, it's just been slower than expected. I appreciate the reassurance that asking for money isn't a bad thing, as well as your other feedback :)

I still think the classified section should be pay to play. I know I wouldn't mind paying a few extra dollars for something knowing the funds would go to help support this website. Say non supporting members have to pay 5% of total sale and supporting members pay 2%. (those are just example percentages)
I see soooooo many people just pop on this website just to sell something...Because the classified section has a HUGE amount of traffic! And its free.

I think that would have to be voluntary and not mandatory or you will see that traffic migrate to a free site quickly - regardless of adding content to the site it still adds traffic and that translates to more income from advertisers.

I could be wrong though.

This is exactly what happens, people go elsewhere. The new system does have a 'featured' option which will increase visibility, that should help bring in some funds :)

Personally, as of today I need every penny I can make from here and a few other sites (not that I have a lot posted), that will turn around one day and I'll be more then happy to send donations to the site but I'm back to a few bucks may not mean much to many here but it's the difference between having the gas to get to work for my wife and school for my kid (and no that's seriously not an exaggeration - I can't even afford to spend $2 on a stupid app:().

But that's my personal problem and not the case for most here so if it went to a price per $ sold or set price to list something I wouldn't complain about it.

The very last thing I want anyone to do is stretch their finances to donate. You gotta take care of you and yours first!

Is ad revenue based on clicks or sales?

Both actually, but clicks have a higher direct impact.
 
So this may come across as somewhat strange... But here goes.

A few weeks ago I was listening to Alex Jones (DISCLAIMER: I don't really take him seriously, but I like a good conspiracy theory, even if I think he's a nutter) and he made a really good series of points. He was talking about how ad revenue across the board is shrinking, this is due in part to the rise in ad-blockers, and the fact that there just isn't as much money available for advertising as there once was. As a result of this, several years ago, he had pushed more and more into marketing branded products, for him this is obviously all the goofy stuff like dietary supplements, and prepper supplies (the guy knows his market!).

My suggestion is largely along those lines. Lets design some products for NWAF to sell. I realize this is a complicated endeavor, but one major way to do it would be to sell them through amazon or another large online retailer, have them handle ordering and fulfillment, and then take that money to make it support ongoing operations. The complexity of doing this through amazon is that it requires a UPC for every item. This makes short runs difficult, and they have some gun-aversion in their sales policies.

As a firearms site, this is primarily gear oriented, and lots of ideas are shared about what to buy. I'm more than willing to devote design and production efforts to helping the site out. But here's my specific idea:

If you guys have ideas for products you want, made of metal, and mostly flat, I'll cad them up in solidworks, let everyone approve them, we get a headcount on how many people want it (with some overrun for people who are not paying attention) I can have things laser-cut for relatively low cost, and if there are a number of different items made from the same material, it does nothing but drive production costs down. An example: If you want 100 butter knives and 10 spoons, but they're all made from the same material, the shape of the 10 spoons just goes to meeting the minimum quantity, provided we don't need to buy more material.

Lets make a few examples, you guys want to do AKM flats? Great, direct me to a drawing of what you want, and I can probably make a few hundred of them for $5-10 each, NWAF sells them for $15-20 (going rate) the profit goes to supporting operations.

If you guys decide you want a bunch of bottle openers that also have a screwdriver blade on one end, and a 1911 barrel bushing wrench, and an M4 stock spanner, along with a bunch of hex wrenches, that's totally doable too.

One of the most valuable things I can donate at the moment is my labor. This is my offer, let me know what I can do.
 
Both actually, but clicks have a higher direct impact.
I run an ad blocker and video blocker for the obvious reason that most do, they are extremely irritating (especially the auto play videos) and I have to defend myself or I would go crazy. I don't turn it off when I go to a specific site (like here), but, if I/we did, and then clicked on an ad or two (or more) each time we were on the forum would it make a big difference?
 
RETIRED and getting older by the day.. Joey, this board runs the best of any I participate in or on. It is a pleasure to use and the expertise that has be afforded by you is supreme. I wish you the best, and hope this operation stays healthy.. Make it a Blessed Day..
 
So Joe what Im hearing is some of us.. techy people need to get together, grab my old server I have sitting around, launch about 10 - 15 VM's on it and have autoclickers that click on the ad banner and then close the page.. LOL

But seriously in all reality, I do have a old Dell poweredge server with dual xeon 2.4ghz processors and 32gb of ram, and I think its 5 drives across the front with 75gb each, if you want it and it would help you host.. all yours dude.

After I saw the donate meter in the corner today, I was actually thinking.. hmm might be time to put a bit of a membership onto my paypal CC :)
also my gun range dues have come in and were lower than last year (2nd year member now) and so.. might be able to throw some to the site.
 
I would suggest maybe doing a flat rate fee for firearm ads. Make it reasonable, say $10 to list a gun. For the amount of traffic NWFA sees I think that's super reasonable and worth it to sell a piece. I've had ten times better luck here with selling and buying than armslist.
 
I would suggest maybe doing a flat rate fee for firearm ads. Make it reasonable, say $10 to list a gun. For the amount of traffic NWFA sees I think that's super reasonable and worth it to sell a piece. I've had ten times better luck here with selling and buying than armslist.
So I am one that's posted a few guns and other items in here and have actually had worse time selling them vs armslist. If it was a optional thing that might be one thing, but for myself I wouldn't post something that's not guaranteed to sell for 10$, rubs me the wrong way, just like eBay saying J can post and item for free and then 15 days after it sells sending me an invoice for 25$ (10% of item price)

That really rubbed me the wrong way.
 
So I am one that's posted a few guns and other items in here and have actually had worse time selling them vs armslist. If it was a optional thing that might be one thing, but for myself I wouldn't post something that's not guaranteed to sell for 10$, rubs me the wrong way, just like eBay saying J can post and item for free and then 15 days after it sells sending me an invoice for 25$ (10% of item price)

That really rubbed me the wrong way.

Yeah, I get that big time. eBay and I parted ways a looonnggg time ago. That's too bad that you've had issues here selling firearms. I've had really good luck honestly. I don't know, maybe Joe's "Featured" listing fee is better. Just trying to think of ways to keep NWFA out of the red.
 
I would suggest maybe doing a flat rate fee for firearm ads. Make it reasonable, say $10 to list a gun. For the amount of traffic NWFA sees I think that's super reasonable and worth it to sell a piece. I've had ten times better luck here with selling and buying than armslist.

With the FFL fees and for some, OSP fees it already been harder. To sell things and I've been selling at a loss for the first time for as long as I can remember.

If that's the route it goes it maybe should be a sliding scale.

As an example, all the people selling $2500 rifles shouldn't pay the same fee as someone trying to off load a brick or 2 of .22lr for $25-50..

Armslist is free and reaches a much larger audience if your willing to ship something.
 
I don't have any stellar ideas on this topic as of yet, but it did get me to poking around the forum to find how to donate. Found it. Thanks for a great community. :)
 
With the FFL fees and for some, OSP fees it already been harder. To sell things and I've been selling at a loss for the first time for as long as I can remember.

If that's the route it goes it maybe should be a sliding scale.

As an example, all the people selling $2500 rifles shouldn't pay the same fee as someone trying to off load a brick or 2 of .22lr for $25-50..

Armslist is free and reaches a much larger audience if your willing to ship something.

I agree that a $2500 rifle isn't the same as a brick or two of .22. That's why I suggested $10 listing for guns ONLY. But like I said, maybe just for a Featured ad. And I don't know about you, but I am not into shipping a firearm. So for me a deal is local FTF only.
 
I agree that a $2500 rifle isn't the same as a brick or two of .22. That's why I suggested $10 listing for guns ONLY. But like I said, maybe just for a Featured ad. And I don't know about you, but I am not into shipping a firearm. So for me a deal is local FTF only.

Gotcha;)

I'm normally a FTF person as well but have a scope up that wouldn't be a problem to ship.

Joe Link has done right by almost all folks (can't please them all:p) and I'm sure whatever he implements if anything will be fair and reasonable.
 
I run an ad blocker and video blocker for the obvious reason that most do, they are extremely irritating (especially the auto play videos) and I have to defend myself or I would go crazy. I don't turn it off when I go to a specific site (like here), but, if I/we did, and then clicked on an ad or two (or more) each time we were on the forum would it make a big difference?
@Joe Link,
If we started clicking one or two ads every day approximately how many people would it take to make a noticeable difference? And do we have to be logged in for it to help?
 

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