Does my unicorn carry gun exist?

[papersoldier]

Simple, don't use that type of holster. For CCW use an open top or an ALS if additional retention is a must.

This is good advice. Soft holsters for Glocks (or other striker fired guns with no manual safety) are not a good idea.

 

[WillametteWill]

If you want a edc stryker fired defensive pistol then a manual safety is just silly and redundant.

Respectfully, not for all. Not Glock or other striker fired gun bashing (have M&P's myself) but they have issues. Talking with range officers for LE, who work with folks that are re-holstering guns frequently, ND have gone up since the use of striker fired guns and no safeties. LAPD had a large spike in incidents after switching from what I understand.

With a striker fired gun if even one item gets inside the trigger guard (e.g. forget to cut off the jacket drawstring toggles) it will fire as designed. Something to think about.

This...
Think about the statement, "the safety is on the trigger." Similar to, "the brake is on the gas pedal." Carry what you like, but calling something silly or redundant is not appropriate.

With a holster that covers the trigger guard there really isn't any way to have a ND with a glock.

Really? Ever seen someone re-holster with their finger still in the guard? Happens. Which Glock (or other SF, non safety, SF gun) has a safety for this? This, straps and other items are what cause ND's.

Again, to each their own, but we can learn from other folks reasons and logic.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Respectfully, not for all. Not Glock or other striker fired gun bashing (have M&P's myself) but they have issues. Talking with range officers for LE, who work with folks that are re-holstering guns frequently, ND have gone up since the use of striker fired guns and no safeties. LAPD had a large spike in incidents after switching from what I understand.

This...
Think about the statement, "the safety is on the trigger." Similar to, "the brake is on the gas pedal." Carry what you like, but calling something silly or redundant is not appropriate.

Really? Ever seen someone re-holster with their finger still in the guard? Happens. Which Glock (or other SF, non safety, SF gun) has a safety for this? This, straps and other items are what cause ND's.

Again, to each their own, but we can learn from other folks reasons and logic.

The thing that scares me personally about not having a manual safety is the chance for a young kid to get a hold of a gun somehow like in the instances below. The manual safety is one more thing the kid would have to do before it actually fires. Doesn't mean that manual safety would make it safe to leave a gun where a toddler could get it, but I could see some situations, such as reacting to a different emergency, that might cause someone to temporarily forget their gun could be accessed by little kids. I also firmly respect the right of any individual to have a preference for no manual safety. This is just my personal view.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...al-mart/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.930d4a3f8a8a

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-sheriffs-office-says/?utm_term=.164bab475297

Louisiana toddler accidentally shoots mother in the back

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hers-purse-police-say/?utm_term=.e4e9f6e9bcc9

 

[Joe13]

From me:
With a holster that covers the trigger guard there really isn't any way to have a ND with a glock.






Then:
Really? Ever seen someone re-holster with their finger still in the guard? Happens. Which Glock (or other SF, non safety, SF gun) has a safety for this? This, straps and other items are what cause ND's.


Yea, if your dumb enough or don't train enough to NOT put your finger in the Trigger Guard (it's literally self explanatory...) you will ND.

I've never ever come close to a ND pulling or replacing my G17 in a custom built kydex holster.

Contrary to popular belief, LEO are NOT gun experts. The ones that are will be the exception and not the rule. I've known and know many. No offense to those competent PD, active or retired.

The thing that scares me personally about not having a manual safety is the chance for a young kid to get a hold of a gun somehow like in the instances below. The manual safety is one more thing the kid would have to do before it actually fires. Doesn't mean that manual safety would make it safe to leave a gun where a toddler could get it, but I could see some situations, such as reacting to a different emergency, that might cause someone to temporarily forget their gun could be accessed by little kids. I also firmly respect the right of any individual to have a preference for no manual safety. This is just my personal view.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...al-mart/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.930d4a3f8a8a

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-sheriffs-office-says/?utm_term=.164bab475297

Louisiana toddler accidentally shoots mother in the back

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...hers-purse-police-say/?utm_term=.e4e9f6e9bcc9

If your relying on a manual safety to save a child then your already doing something wrong.

Just my 2¢

 

[osprey]

From the reports I have read it looks like mostly a training issue to me, with holster design as a possible secondary factor. From my own testing it is all but impossible to get a glock to go off while reholstering without your finger being involved in some manner. If your finger is inside the trigger guard while reholstering it can be forced into the trigger deactivating the trigger safety and possibly firing the weapon. I have tried this on all the holsters I own and I cannot get any of my holsters to dryfire the gun no matter which funky way I try to holster them. I am not saying there are not holster designs out there that could fire the weapon without your finger involved. I just don't own any of them evidently.

 

[Joe13]

mostly a training issue to me

I'd condend that all ND's are a lack of training.

 

[WillametteWill]

Joe, you are correct about the level of skill with LEO's and firearms. I have had officers hand me their shotguns after they racked a round and asked me to unload it for them. As stress goes up, and the plan isn't working, completely agree that good training helps when it kicks in. But just being at local, low key, action shooting matches I've seen simple reloads get messed up, people dropping stuff that was easy to hold and a host of other issues with just a little stress added.

Now mix in someone who has just pointed their gun at someone for the first time, and it's dark, and they thought they might die.

Things don't happen smoothly under these conditions. If someone's only "training" is at a static range or at home with no stress added (even a timer) many will find these conditions overwhelming. As the saying goes, men are like teabags, you don't know how strong they are until placed in hot water. If someone wants a safety (and trains taking it off, and putting it back on before re-holstering) more power to them. My choice for years was a DA/SA 9mm with a safety...that I did not use (which was how I was trained). It was pointed at lots of people and re-holstered safely every time. I also did 500+ holster draws and re-holster repetitions before ever using a holster in the field.

Think we likely agree on a lot, personal responsibility.

 

[Joe13]

Well said.

 

[titsonritz]

From me:
With a holster that covers the trigger guard there really isn't any way to have a ND with a glock.






Then:
Really? Ever seen someone re-holster with their finger still in the guard? Happens. Which Glock (or other SF, non safety, SF gun) has a safety for this? This, straps and other items are what cause ND's.


Yea, if your dumb enough or don't train enough to NOT put your finger in the Trigger Guard (it's literally self explanatory...) you will ND.

I've never ever come close to a ND pulling or replacing my G17 in a custom built kydex holster.

Contrary to popular belief, LEO are NOT gun experts. The ones that are will be the exception and not the rule. I've known and know many. No offense to those competent PD, active or retired.







If your relying on a manual safety to save a child then your already doing something wrong.

Just my 2¢

Someone being so lame as to have a finger on the trigger during reholstering is one of those endless Darwin moves, blaming on an inanimate object is just about as lame.

And yep, a manual safety is too thin of a line concerning adults let alone children.

 

[PNWguy]

From the reports I have read it looks like mostly a training issue to me, with holster design as a possible secondary factor. From my own testing it is all but impossible to get a glock to go off while reholstering without your finger being involved in some manner. If your finger is inside the trigger guard while reholstering it can be forced into the trigger deactivating the trigger safety and possibly firing the weapon. I have tried this on all the holsters I own and I cannot get any of my holsters to dryfire the gun no matter which funky way I try to holster them. I am not saying there are not holster designs out there that could fire the weapon without your finger involved. I just don't own any of them evidently.

This is similar to the holster that I had my close call with. The female snap is on a body side short piece of stiff leather that would go into the trigger guard if you weren't careful when re-holstering.

Only once did i not notice that it slipped in and started to push the pistol further into the holster when I realized something didn't feel right.

 

[DB is Here]

See your point, that holster would be a 100% no go for me. Mine are stiff kydex w/ no "retention back strap" for this exact reason.

 

[osprey]

This is similar to the holster that I had my close call with. The female snap is on a body side short piece of stiff leather that would go into the trigger guard if you weren't careful when re-holstering.
View attachment 567614
Only once did i not notice that it slipped in and started to push the pistol further into the holster when I realized something didn't feel right.

I have that same holster for my glock 20. I will revisit my testing as it is a fairly new addition to my holster family and may not have been thoroughly vetted. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[No_Regerts]

My first duty weapon in 2005 was a Gen3 G22. A few years later, switched to an HK USP. That lasted a year and I went back. Switched to an M&P in 2014, been using one since. First ND I saw was in 2016 and it was purely negligent and the gun itself wouldn't have mattered.

When it comes to getting novices to be competent with a handgun, striker fired guns are the easiest to train with by far. I doubt you could compile numbers on how many people's lives were saved not getting hung up on the safety when it came time to shoot. I'd venture to at least one, and that's enough for me.

 

[L84Cabo]

New single stack Glocks are 9mm... And have you held a Gen 5? Or tried the different backstraps on one? This ain't 1987 and Glocks have some great ergos this century...

Doesn't matter. Still ugly. Hell a pig is beautiful compared to Glocks.

 

[titsonritz]

This is similar to the holster that I had my close call with. The female snap is on a body side short piece of stiff leather that would go into the trigger guard if you weren't careful when re-holstering.
View attachment 567614
Only once did i not notice that it slipped in and started to push the pistol further into the holster when I realized something didn't feel right.

"The Gadget" I posted above was designed specifically to address this issue.

 

[osprey]

This is similar to the holster that I had my close call with. The female snap is on a body side short piece of stiff leather that would go into the trigger guard if you weren't careful when re-holstering.
View attachment 567614
Only once did i not notice that it slipped in and started to push the pistol further into the holster when I realized something didn't feel right.

Mine might be a bit different than the holster you are showing there. Mine is a bianchi #19 for a glock 20. I could not get the holster to dry fire the gun no matter how I tried while on my belt, even when I purposely tried. To even get the stiff thumbreak female snap portion to go into trigger area you have to have to have muzzle outside holster and point pistol at a 45 degree outward in relation to the holster while going downward but you still cannot get it to fire. Holding the holster in my hand I was able to get it to dry fire the but it is not something I would worry about while on my belt as it has to be held in a position reletive to your body that is not possible while on your belt. Yours looks a bit different and if it does what you say I think a new style holster is what is needed for sure. My setup is not an edc but goes on my hunting pack belt but still your testimony was enough to get me to double check myself. Here are a couple pics

 

[User 1234]

There's some very good information in this thread, I'm sort of benefitting from the OP's question. Keep sharing!

 

[Certaindeaf]

It's not the arrow, Kemosabe.

 

[User 1234]

Or for the secret squirrel/Jason Bourne technique, using a piece of rubber hose wedged behind the hammer and the chamber empty!

 

[Kruel J]

Doesn't matter. Still ugly. Hell a pig is beautiful compared to Glocks.

Cause looks always matter eh?