Does Glock ever update their pistols?

[OldBroad44]

NO tools. 1911

I can not shoot a Glock. More specifically I can not shoot a Glock consistently or well.
I never did find out just what it was that kept me from making the adjustment so I'm going to put it fully on me and not the Glock. I don't think it's the trigger because I'm a bit of a dinosaur. I have extensive double action revolver experience.

Maybe if they make it heavier and in a different color?

I can't shoot a Glock well either. Found this out when I bought a model 23. I already knew I couldn't shoot little guns like J frame Smiths well. But these are too small for my hand and if I use any part of the first digit on the trigger I just can't pull the trigger straight back. I shoot snubby versions of standard medium frame metal revolvers well. So it wasn't sight radius. Ultimately I figured out that weight is a big factor for me. There is an almost imperceptible tremor in my arms when I extend them holding a light gun like any Glock and many other full size but plastic or alloy guns. A heavier gun stabilizes and cancels that tremor. I need a gun to be at least about 32 oz for me to shoot it well.

 

[OldBroad44]

The original Glock had a good, consistent design philosophy that was well executed. It was as light as possible for the size and reliable right out of the box. Which it got by being loose as a goose, so it was adequate as an ordinary SD or service weapon and was easy to maintain and unusually reliable. But it would not have the sort of accuracy that the more accurate semi autos or revolvers have. It was as light as possible making it glorious to carry. and built as cheaply as consistent with reliability so that it could be mass marketed to LE, military, or civilians. Glock got it right the first time. So subsequent models and variants tend to involve only minor modifications or extra features such as milling to accommodate red dot sights that add to the cost but are necessary for some users (such as those with poor eyesight).

 

[OldBroad44]

Let me be as perfectly clear as possible.

I have attempted some semblance of proficiency with Glock pistols over multiple calibers, models, generations, and thousands of rounds of ammunition for forty years.
No trained seal balancing act is going to solve the problem.
No further amount of training is ever going to recoup the time and money I spent attempting to master the advanced polymer projectile dispensing pistol.
I was done with it then and I'm done with it now and for the foreseeable future.
If I had to pick one up and use it in the extreme case, I'm sure I could point it in the general direction of an intended landing spot with some proficiency.
I'm more able to get consistent hits with a 44 cap and ball.
I regularly train with an S&W "N" frame at 50M and hold to 5".
My 1911's are minute of melon out to 50M as well.
I have a Hi-Power or two that hold the same off hand accuracy.
The 9mm FEG P9R fired double action isn't far behind.
Why in the world would I waste any more time, money, effort, on a platform that has for forty years has frustrated me?
My only regrets are the time I lost, the ammunition I wasted, and the numerous Glock pistols that I purchased and sold at a loss.
If I knew now what I knew then I would have never picked up a Glock in the first place.
You would think that after ten, twenty, thirty, years of continuous frustration I would have figured out that a Glock doesn't belong in my hands.
I guess I'm just not that smart.

Do Glocks have the inherent accuracy necessary to get 5" groups at 50 meters shooting offhand? I doubt it.

The ordinary SW K, L, or N frame revolvers can do that in my hands. (I'm an ordinary good shot and skilled handgun hunter, but not good enough to shoot competitively). Likewise for the two Security 6s I owned, one snubby and one 6 inch. Back in the 1970s and 1980s gun magazines printed lots of Ransom Rest tests with revolvers. If it was a K,L, or N frame SW or a full size Ruger it could ordinarily hold to 2" groups with the best ammo for the gun at 50 yards in Ransom rest and 5" in the hands of a good human shooter. And essentially the same as Ransom rest if the gun was shot by a good shooter from bench rest with a scoped gun only. So for the best standard production DA revolvers (except Dan Wessons, which can be a bit more accurate), you get about 2-3 inches of variability in the group from the gun, depending on specific gun and barrel length between 2-6", and another 2" up of variability from an offhand shooter.

Generally, you didn't and dont see Ransom rest tests of semi-autos. I figure they just dont look good that way. What you did see is handgun hunters did not usually use semi autos except for certain especially accurate .22s. .22 target pistols essentially. The ordinary SD semiauto 9mm just wasn't accurate enough.

Maybe its not that you don't shoot Glocks well. Its that nobody shoots Glocks well by your standards. You are used to the most accurate revolvers and semiautos, and Glocks just are not that. They are designed much more for reliability than for accuracy. Being loose as goose is great for out of box reliability and resistance to jamming in the field, even if dropped in the mud. Very accurate guns are tight...you better not drop them in the mud.

 

[eustace_stelio]

I'm guessing not a lot of self defense uses of firearms are out at 50 yards. At that distance you're better off taking cover or suppressing fire.

 

[1775usmc]

Throw a red dot on a Glock, Sig, etc. and you can hit steel at 100 meters easy. All day long.

It’s not hard to do with irons either.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I'm guessing not a lot of self defense uses of firearms are out at 50 yards. At that distance you're better off taking cover or suppressing fire.
View attachment 1430680

These work well for long range (and of course make a huge difference at short and intermediate ranges). Need to test at 100 yards with the stock barrel.

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• ilikegunspdx
• May 14, 2023

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• ilikegunspdx
• May 14, 2023

 

[kopcicle]

Maybe its not that you don't shoot Glocks well.

That would be an understatement. Ever pattern #00 @ 50m ? Yeah, like that.

I'm guessing not a lot of self defense uses of firearms are out at 50 yards.

Elisjsha Dicken

Reports vary but from the mall map it was near 40 yards.

 

[1775usmc]

That would be an understatement. Ever pattern #00 @ 50m ? Yeah, like that.

Elisjsha Dicken

Reports vary but from the mall map it was near 40 yards.

True. But a farther is not the normality. It pays to practice at further distances as well as close. Especially nowadays. Can never be too prepared.

 

[kopcicle]

Can never be too prepared.

All too true. Aim small, miss small. Aim further, hit closer.

Randomly and with the permission of fellow shooters and the duty RSO I will borrow longer targets from rifle shooters at 50 and 100 yards on a mixed rifle/pistol range. Man's got to find his limitations before he can know them. I don't recommend this unless you're around like minded and willing people. I mean I wouldn't want to ruin a postal match or raise the ire of an RSO if'n ya know what I mean...

Otherwise, if at a pit or open public shoot I'll puncture a rifle distance target of my own on occasion just to see if the gawds are with me. Helps a little bit if it's 185's and not 230's

 

[OldBroad44]

I'm guessing not a lot of self defense uses of firearms are out at 50 yards. At that distance you're better off taking cover or suppressing fire.
View attachment 1430680

I agree that the occasions where one might need the greater accuracy of some handguns to reach out to 50 yards or more are few compared with the situations involving 25 yards or less, even for the person who routinely carries a suitably accurate gun and is good enough so that the extra accuracy matters. But there are more such defensive situations than you might think if you include the possibility you may have to defend others. A friend or family member, or innocent other human or your pets or livestock. @Ura-Ki had to save his brother who was attacked by a cougar when they were fishing. His brother was at a distance that would have been chancey for a handgun given that the cougar was already on top of the brother. Fortunately Ura-Ki's choice of SD woods guns was a rifle.

Back when I had a duck flock, on two occassions I killed foxes with my edc, a 686. Foxes were after my ducks in broad daylight. About 30 yards from me. The fenced area was 50 yards. A farmer or rancher usually grabs a rifle or shotgun when they hear predators going after their livestock at night. And/or they put animals in a predator-proof shed or barn at night. But when a predator goes after your livestock or pets in daytime and you are outdoors gardening, your EDC is all you have.

What if someone grabs your kid and is running away with them? Or a bad guy is using a human as a shield and you need to shoot him in the right eye to get instant incapacitation? During the era in which I did most of my hiking and camping, I was accompanied by a dog. What if my dog treed a bear and then the bear decided to come down? We did, on one occassion, surprise a bear, and stood there, me about 22' from bear aiming a 6"357 mag at it, the dog directly between us, 12' from bear. Bear ran. Dog chased. I yelled "Out!"). Dog obeyed and ceased chasing bear and returned to me instead of treeing it. But I never knew for sure the dog would obey the "Out" command with a bear until it happened.

What if my dog was threatened by a rabid raccoon, fox, coyote, or dog? Or attacked by a pack of ferral dogs? Or a cougar? Over there, at 50 yards?

At one point one neighbor had a dog that aggressively charged passing little kids, and skidded to a halt at the invisible fence. I was always worried that if the buried electric wire or electricity or shock collar failed I might have to shoot an attacking dog from my yard from a distance to save a neighborhood kid.

I know two people personally who were hiking in the open and someone start shooting at them with a rifle. Whether to kill them or just scare them for fun not being obvious. Have read about such cases too.

Most people aren't so accurate with a handgun that they would lose much by carrying a Glock instead of something more accurate. For those of us who are accurate enough so that we could do SD at longer distances given an accurate gun, the likelihood of needing that capability exists but is still small compared to the need for short range SD when it comes to handguns. In addition, for longer range situations the greater accuracy of my revolvers really only extends the protection from 30 yards or so to 80 yards or so. Beyond that you need a rifle.

 

[eustace_stelio]

Hense why I said "not a lot."

Of course there will be times a threat is beyond 50 yards but for in an urban environment it is typically much closer.

Out in the boons a rifle is always gonna be a better friend than a polymer pistol.

 

[OldBroad44]

Hense why I said "not a lot."

Of course there will be times a threat is beyond 50 yards but for in an urban environment it is typically much closer.

Out in the boons a rifle is always gonna be a better friend than a polymer pistol.

Hence I started by agreeing with your "not a lot."

Many here on nwfa or in Oregon don't live in urban environments. Some live on farms or ranches. Some in the woods. I live beyond the Corvallis city limits but in a small residential community. However, most homes in my community have at least 5 acres and are mostly woods, and we are adjacent to MacDonald Forest, so share its critters. Critters I have shooed out of my yard when they were after my ducks include one bear, many raccoons and possums, and a huge owl. Critters I have shot because they were in my back yard and after my ducks include two foxes, and many coons, possums and skunks. Other critters in the neighborhood include a resident cougar and coyotes. Poultry, and non-commercial livestock raising except hogs is legal in my community. Having livestock and predators means carrying an EDC that can reach across your property is sensible. A rifle doesn't work because its not workable to carry it while doing yard work or gardening. And while nearly every home in my neighborhood has guns, if you carried a rifle routinely whenever in your yard many would figure you were some sorta fruitcake. Possibly a very nutty one. In my neighborhood guns are sorta like genitals. We all know we all have them. But we don't wave 'em around in public.

I don't agree that a rifle is always better for SD in the boonies. First, its inconvenient to carry and must be removed for many kinds of work. Second, it can't be carried easily concealed. And the biggest danger to a human in most boonies is an evil human, not a critter. And I figure most evil humans are very unlikely to have signs on them saying "Evil human. Feel free to shoot me." Instead they are more likely to look and act like an ordinary human and say a friendly hello as they approach to pass you on the path. And then when they are within reach they grab your rifle with one hand and smash you in the face with the other. Or they simply draw their own handgun without warning and have the drop on you. In this SD scenario, having a concealed gun is way better than having an unconcealed rifle.

I also don't think a rifle is always better for SD against a bear or cougar. It would be if the animal starts from some distance away and you have plenty of time to unsling the rifle. But apparently many bear or cougar attacks happen suddenly. And you aren't likely to be able to get the slung rifle off your back and into action while the cougar is on you trying to get you by the back of the neck and break your spine. A number of experts on bear defense advise using the biggest caliber you can control with one hand, not the biggest caliber. That's partly for faster followup shots but also because all too often the bear has maimed or is chewing on one arm before the victim has even drawn his handgun. If you have just one functional arm and are rolling around on the ground with the grizzly, I think you are more likely to be able to get a holstered handgun than a slung rifle into action.

 

[OldBroad44]

Throw a red dot on a Glock, Sig, etc. and you can hit steel at 100 meters easy. All day long.

It’s not hard to do with irons either.

Aren't those 100 yard steels something like 12" or more across? Ie much bigger ghan a cougar head. And gongs are stationary. Not in a fight with someone you love whom you must avoid hitting. And you would likely need to be shooting from offhand. And you wouldn't know exact distance.

 

[eustace_stelio]

Hence I started by agreeing with your "not a lot."

Many here on nwfa or in Oregon don't live in urban environments. Some live on farms or ranches. Some in the woods. I live beyond the Corvallis city limits but in a small residential community. However, most homes in my community have at least 5 acres and are mostly woods, and we are adjacent to MacDonald Forest, so share its critters. Critters I have shooed out of my yard when they were after my ducks include one bear, many raccoons and possums, and a huge owl. Critters I have shot because they were in my back yard and after my ducks include two foxes, and many coons, possums and skunks. Other critters in the neighborhood include a resident cougar and coyotes. Poultry, and non-commercial livestock raising except hogs is legal in my community. Having livestock and predators means carrying an EDC that can reach across your property is sensible. A rifle doesn't work because its not workable to carry it while doing yard work or gardening. And while nearly every home in my neighborhood has guns, if you carried a rifle routinely whenever in your yard many would figure you were some sorta fruitcake. Possibly a very nutty one. In my neighborhood guns are sorta like genitals. We all know we all have them. But we don't wave 'em around in public.

I don't agree that a rifle is always better for SD in the boonies. First, its inconvenient to carry and must be removed for many kinds of work. Second, it can't be carried easily concealed. And the biggest danger to a human in most boonies is an evil human, not a critter. And I figure most evil humans are very unlikely to have signs on them saying "Evil human. Feel free to shoot me." Instead they are more likely to look and act like an ordinary human and say a friendly hello as they approach to pass you on the path. And then when they are within reach they grab your rifle with one hand and smash you in the face with the other. Or they simply draw their own handgun without warning and have the drop on you. In this SD scenario, having a concealed gun is way better than having an unconcealed rifle.

I also don't think a rifle is always better for SD against a bear or cougar. It would be if the animal starts from some distance away and you have plenty of time to unsling the rifle. But apparently many bear or cougar attacks happen suddenly. And you aren't likely to be able to get the slung rifle off your back and into action while the cougar is on you trying to get you by the back of the neck and break your spine. A number of experts on bear defense advise using the biggest caliber you can control with one hand, not the biggest caliber. That's partly for faster followup shots but also because all too often the bear has maimed or is chewing on one arm before the victim has even drawn his handgun. If you have just one functional arm and are rolling around on the ground with the grizzly, I think you are more likely to be able to get a holstered handgun than a slung rifle into action.

Cool story

 

[Paolung]

Plus their numbering system has no regularity to it, but then that's me.

Glocks are numbered by the order of patents acquired.

Glock 17 was Gaston Glock’s 17th patent on his handguns, for example.

 

[Hashh]

Glocks may not be the flashiest guns out there, but they stick to what works. They've made some updates and tweaks over the years to improve performance and ergonomics, even if they all kinda look the same. It's like the Amish of the gun world, keeping things plain and reliable. But hey, if you're looking for more variety and fancy features, there are plenty of other options to explore. It all depends on what floats your boat and gets you hitting those targets.

 

[washagonian]

My personal favorite
View attachment 1425502

Ah yes! The proverbial "Austrian Brick".
(I have many such bricks.)

 

[DunRanull]

Will Glock ever up-date their pistols? Nah, not unless they go to a metal frame....

 

[E4mafia]

They did update for the 40sw Gen5 pistols.
The slides a little bit thicker to help reduce muzzle flip that 40s known for. The frame is still the same 9mm size.

Watching HK45s video on it the other night he says there's a noticable felt difference in a G23 G5 vs G23 G4 in that it keeps it more flat shooting and feels like it has more of a kick like 45 than the 40 snap.

Downsides being that it's now thicker (the slide) but not quite as thick as the 45acp slides. Also means you need a new holster.

 

[1775usmc]

They did update for the 40sw Gen5 pistols.
The slides a little bit thicker to help reduce muzzle flip that 40s known for. The frame is still the same 9mm size.

Watching HK45s video on it the other night he says there's a noticable felt difference in a G23 G5 vs G23 G4 in that it keeps it more flat shooting and feels like it has more of a kick like 45 than the 40 snap.

Downsides being that it's now thicker (the slide) but not quite as thick as the 45acp slides. Also means you need a new holster.

I wonder if there is a difference in the 9mm as well. I have a holster for my G45 Gen 5 with a X300 and although my G17 Gen 4 with a X300 fits it has a little slop and I have to tighten the retention.