Does anyone else out there think the "Stand Your Ground" law is stupid?

[billstaf]

A person is under zero obligation to follow directions from a 911 dispatcher.

You are right about that, but now Zimmerman is sitting in front of a jury. He has an aggressive and ambitious prosecutor, a openly hostile media, and a jury made up of women. His decision to ignore the 911 dispatcher's advice and go after the kid may end up costing him everything. Personally, I'm hoping that Zimmerman is freed and the message gets sent to any and all thugs that it is OK for people to protect themselves. There may be a black backlash and rioting if Zimmerman is freed, but perhaps it is time for that too, so we can finally clean up some of the societal cess-pool we find ourselves living in these days.

 

[Stomper]

That's odd, since they display "To Protect And Serve" all over their armored cars and uniforms.

Mainly just a motto/slogan for P.R.

 

[unklekippy]

You are right about that, but now Zimmerman is sitting in front of a jury. He has an aggressive and ambitious prosecutor, a openly hostile media, and a jury made up of women. His decision to ignore the 911 dispatcher's advice and go after the kid may end up costing him everything. Personally, I'm hoping that Zimmerman is freed and the message gets sent to any and all thugs that it is OK for people to protect themselves. There may be a black backlash and rioting if Zimmerman is freed, but perhaps it is time for that too, so we can finally clean up some of the societal cess-pool we find ourselves living in these days.

Why does everyone ignore the fact that he did "obey" the dispatcher and was attacked by Martin(who followed him. Which apparently is only a crime when Zimmerman does it.) while returning to his truck? Why is that part always just omitted? Is it because fact gets in the way of emotion here?

 

[U201491]

Why does everyone ignore the fact that he did "obey" the dispatcher and was attacked by Martin(who followed him. Which apparently is only a crime when Zimmerman does it.) while returning to his truck? Why is that part always just omitted? Is it because fact gets in the way of emotion here?

 

[accessbob]

That's odd, since they display "To Protect And Serve" all over their armored cars and uniforms. I wonder who exactly it is they are protecting and serving, since they have no problem going to court to prove they are not required to either protect or serve, yet we do not have the option to stop paying them to oppress us. It's more than a little bit disgusting. Imagine the defense people could have if they had all the money stolen from them to fund the king's men?

It makes the people feel safe, even if they aren't.

 

[unklekippy]

It makes the people feel safe, even if they aren't.

Isn't lulling the public into a false sense of security a crime in itself?

 

[accessbob]

Isn't lulling the public into a false sense of security a crime in itself?

Not according to codified law. But it isn't ethical.

 

[U201491]

Even a justified shoot will most likely bring a suit from the perps family looking for free bucks.
There needs to be laws in place preventing that. Not having that almost nullifies the SYG laws.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

That's odd, since they display "To Protect And Serve" all over their armored cars and uniforms. I wonder who exactly it is they are protecting and serving, since they have no problem going to court to prove they are not required to either protect or serve, yet we do not have the option to stop paying them to oppress us. It's more than a little bit disgusting. Imagine the defense people could have if they had all the money stolen from them to fund the king's men?

The opinion of the court has been that they are there to protect society at large, not you or I individually. Sort of a catch-22 kind of thing, really, but that is the opinion. As soon as I can find the actual case where that is from, I'll edit this and add it. (It's not DeShaney v. Winnebago nor Castle Rock v. Gonzales, have to keep looking).

OK, found (sort of ) the reference I was looking for: "A state's failure to provide petitioner against privagte violence generally does noty constitute a violation of the due process clause, because the clause imposes no duty on tyhe state to provide members of the general public with adequate protection services." Deshaney v Winnebago County, 489 US 189, 1989

 

[3MTA3]

Why does everyone ignore the fact that he did "obey" the dispatcher and was attacked by Martin(who followed him. Which apparently is only a crime when Zimmerman does it.) while returning to his truck? Why is that part always just omitted? Is it because fact gets in the way of emotion here?

There you go with those pesky facts again...

 

[U201491]

Sorry, but have to put this here.
Too good not to.

'I GOT TO GO' Man Hogties Burglary Suspect, Leaves For Work, http://fxn.ws/14UEkpx - Sent via the FOX News Android App.

 

[One-Eyed Ross]

I read that, Taku. Great stuff. I guess if you know your way around a pigging string, it'll work. (The only thing I know about them is that my nephew is good at using his when he calf ropes).

 

[U201491]

I read that, Taku. Great stuff. I guess if you know your way around a pigging string, it'll work. (The only thing I know about them is that my nephew is good at using his when he calf ropes).

Yeah its amazing how fast ya can tie someone up.
The best part was how he took it in stride and went to work.
That cracked me up.

 

[Phillyfan]

So, personally, here is one of my concerns. I've seen several street fights put people in the hospital, and some never came out the same as they went in, if they came out at all. I'm in a park and someone picks a fight with me, how am I to know if he has MMA training, is on drugs that increase strength and decrease feeling, etc? At that point I have a gun in my pocket. By watching the Zimmerman trial it seems I need to wait until I reasonably feel that my life is in danger, and to the prosecutors it seems that I need to let the individual do a certain amount of damage before they will believe me, but the problem with that is that the injury they don't see could've been the one that killed. If I wait until the guy is kicking me in the head, it's too damned late. I once saw a man beaten to death in seconds (punched unconscious then thrown from an over hang). The sad thing is, if he'd saved his life by shooting, he would have probably been put on trial for murder, and most likely convicted because he didn't show life threatening injuries.

I guess my real problem is that I am a big guy, compared to most. Nobody, up until now, has ever picked a fight with me (post high school). But there are those who look for a big guy to take down. Honestly, I've never lost a fight (truth be told I never felt like I won one either, so stupid). For me to lose would mean I lose consciousness and who is there to protect me then? Whose to say they will stop once I'm out. If it is just me and the dog on a walk, I'll take my chances, but if I'm on a camping trip with the family can I afford to be forced into a fight, and wait to see if I win or lose to use my gun? If I lose consciousness, I can't protect them. It is a very stressful paradox.

 

[Squidly]

"Stand your ground" is a good doctrine. If I'm out with my family, running and hiding is not an option. I'm a soft office boy, too old to fight. I'll take my chances with the courts.

 

[Misterbill]

I guess my real problem is that I am a big guy, compared to most. Nobody, up until now, has ever picked a fight with me (post high school). But there are those who look for a big guy to take down. Honestly, I've never lost a fight (truth be told I never felt like I won one either, so stupid). For me to lose would mean I lose consciousness and who is there to protect me then? Whose to say they will stop once I'm out. If it is just me and the dog on a walk, I'll take my chances, but if I'm on a camping trip with the family can I afford to be forced into a fight, and wait to see if I win or lose to use my gun? If I lose consciousness, I can't protect them. It is a very stressful paradox.

Funny, I've managed to go decades without getting in any kind of physical altercation. It's called avoidance and de-escalation.
I used to get into fights. Because I was basically looking for a fight to get into. The last really hairy barfight I participated in convinced me this was pretty damn stupid behavior on my part. (I think I was 23 or so).

Don't hang around stupid people, doing stupid things in stupid places. Also don't DO stupid things or go to stupid places.
You can defuse most situations by just backing down. Pretend it's your wife: You don't have to MEAN you're sorry, you just have to say it.

If you're ego is too fragile to handle letting someone else "win" a stupid verbal confrontation, it's probably too fragile to to handle carrying a gun.

The chances of you being randomly attacked by an unarmed person who just "wants to pick a fight" are so remarkably tiny unless you're hanging out with young idiots who like to fight, it isn't worth discussing.

If you insist on hanging out with stupid people who do stupid things, well, expect a stupid prize.

 

[saxon]

So, personally, here is one of my concerns. I've seen several street fights put people in the hospital, and some never came out the same as they went in, if they came out at all. I'm in a park and someone picks a fight with me, how am I to know if he has MMA training, is on drugs that increase strength and decrease feeling, etc? At that point I have a gun in my pocket. ------ it seems I need to wait until I reasonably feel that my life is in danger,------- If I wait until the guy is kicking me in the head, it's too damned late. I once saw a man beaten to death in seconds (punched unconscious then thrown from an over hang). The sad thing is, if he'd saved his life by shooting, he would have probably been put on trial for murder, and most likely convicted because he didn't show life threatening injuries.
.

and this is the point is it not? if we do not have a gun and said Bad man deos this then we are dead.
IF we have a gun and said Bad man tries this and we stand our ground and he ends up dead, how many bad guys would still go after people IF
we could simply STOP them before they try to kill us?
if we are to worried about what a jury would think and try to run away or to escape how much more will teh flight option triger the bad guy
to do what bad guys do? try and kill?

 

[Phillyfan]

If you're ego is too fragile to handle letting someone else "win" a stupid verbal confrontation, it's probably too fragile to to handle carrying a gun.

I can't tell if that will come out as someone else's quote or not, but it cuts to the very bone of the point I've wanted to make from the beginning. So well said. I think I said it before, but gun goes in the pocket, ego must be taken out of the equation.

 

[PiratePast40]

If you're ego is too fragile to handle letting someone else "win" a stupid verbal confrontation, it's probably too fragile to to handle carrying a gun.

I can't tell if that will come out as someone else's quote or not, but it cuts to the very bone of the point I've wanted to make from the beginning. So well said. I think I said it before, but gun goes in the pocket, ego must be taken out of the equation.

Your straw man isn't the norm and that's why you're getting so much pushback. Maybe your example and fears are more applicable to the ghetto instead of the CHL holders who are members of this forum. Really don't have a clue why you're trumpeting the thing about responsibility since everyone with half a brain believes in that concept.

I think you're fear is unjustified. A dismissal of the charges against Zimmerman does not set a precedence that anyone is justified in using a gun to finish a fight. There are extenuating circumstances that must be taken into account in every case. Most people are intelligent enough to know that.

 

[pokerace]

this story is similar; Think what the justice system would have done to him, If he was armed and shot one of the "teens"!!!

This is something I have thought about in the past; What is to be done????




Man attacked after standing up to rowdy teens at McDonald's - KPTV - FOX 12