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"Doctors target gun violence as a social disease"

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by sailorman2010, Aug 11, 2012.

  1. sailorman2010

    sailorman2010 Tri-Cities, WA Member

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  2. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    Going by that argument, since the government perpetrates the vast majority of firearm related murders in the US, one can argue the government itself is a social disease.
     
  3. Spad

    Spad Kennewick,WA, the desert side Active Member

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    Nothing new here the anti gun nuts are always waiting in the wood work to spew forth thier venom. Always a first step to gun control,they are ceaseless in their quest. Bill
     
  4. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Got that tin hat a little tight again I see
     
  5. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    How many people do doctors kill?
     
  6. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    The government rarely has to inflict violence to get its way (merely the threat of violence is sufficient to cow most people). If you include threats of violence as well as actual violence, the government is by far the most violent entity in the US.
     
  7. Kurly

    Kurly Puget Sound Member

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    A means of liberal acceptance.
     
  8. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Deaths from avoidable medical error more than double in past decade, investigation shows

    "The total number of iatrogenic deaths shown in the following table is 783,936. It is evident that the American medical system is the leading cause of death and injury in the United States"

    From: Medical system is leading cause of death and injury in US - Health Supreme

    "Of the total 323,993 deaths among Medicare patients in those years who developed one or more patient-safety incidents, 263,864, or 81 percent, of these deaths were directly attributable to the incident(s)."

    From: In Hospital Deaths from Medical Errors at 195,000 per Year USA

    "In 2003 there were 6,328,000 car accidents in the US. There were 2.9 million injuries and 42,643 people were killed in auto accidents."

    From: How many deaths are caused by car accidents a year

    "In the U.S. for 2006, there were 30,896 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 16,883; Homicide 12,791; Accident 642; Legal Intervention 360; Undetermined 220."

    FIREARMS TUTORIAL

    There are over 25,000 laws on the book's regarding guns and gun ownership. Now, since gun deaths are lower then medical mistakes and vehicle accidents where do you think more emphasis on "control" should be placed?
     
  9. Greenbug

    Greenbug Bend Well-Known Member

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    I think that is why they call medical carrers a "PRACTICE". I think doctors and weater forecasters are the only jobs I know of where you can screw up on a regular basis and still keep your job.
     
    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.
  10. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    They must be massively scientifically confused docs, or they are political zealots on a tear. One or the other. Because the spiking gun ownership rates would, if their suppositions were correct, result in a drastic INCREASE in crimes. And yet it hasn't. On the contrary, crime rates have dropped 45%+ from 1991, when gun control was at an all-time high in the USA and gun ownership was WAY down.

    But facts mean nothing to these zealots. They will tell any lie to make their anti-gun point.
     
  11. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Im a physician and I dont see this going father than that article. There is a huge list of things that I would be more concerned about more than gun violence. Smoking, cholesterol, cancer, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, driving without seat belts, not replacing batteries in your smoke detectors and several others and then worry about gun violence. Number of patients I've seen with problems related to cigarettes? thousands. Number of patients I've seen related to gun violence? oh perhaps 2 in the last 10 years. Priorities....

    Though, I'd like to have people who own a firearm take a good class and talk to their kids about safety
     
  12. chemist

    chemist Beaverton OR Well-Known Member

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    deen_ad,
    As bad as the iatrogenic death rate is, those numbers don't even include the deaths from nosocomial infection, i.e., from infections contracted while inside the hospital:
    Nosocomial Infections, Part 1 | Important Little Facts
     
  13. Uberdillo

    Uberdillo Oregon Active Member

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    "They're trying to take my guns" isn't my first thought when I read this. The docs are asking legitimate questions and it's kinda sad how fast they and their profession is attacked and how simply raising the question of gun violence, especially when someone's identifying the issue of violence in America as a social disease, earns such a defensive and worn-out response. It inevitably becomes a missed opportunity to look at the people problem that violence is, to have that conversation and move it away from inanimate objects. If you want to talk about medical malpractice, that's great, it's something we need to address with new generations of doctors and nurses, how we assess their competency and effectiveness, and how the system needs to address fatigue in ways similar to current FAA regulations for pilots and control tower personnel. But if you're just going to redirect the conversation because you're uncomfortable talking about your hobby, attacking the speaker's profession just makes you look like an ***, and bringing up the government makes you sound paranoid.

    And what is up with allowing our media to perfectly satisfy the needs and desires of every psychotic mass murderer out there who's trying to get their moment of fame? You don't rob a 7-11 for the international fame and attention and you don't shoot up a crowded movie theater for the money. There's a huge conversation about censorship to be had but I look at it like, there are both citizens and government doing things throughout the country daily that you might feel you ought to know about but are none-the-wiser and we're all happily unaware. What if we added mass shootings to that list?
     
  14. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    I agree with you totally as to your WISH.

    I recently had an ER doc with a lot of gun violence patients in one of my classes. HIS conclusion seemed to amount to: "bubblegum happens." He was also, on range day, pointing out which targets had been stopped, vs those merely annoyed.

    I don't see any dichotomy between a Hippocratic Oath and a commitment to defense against an armed criminal. Nor do most of the Docs in this area.

    But the AMA, the AAP and many other physician associations have taken an absolutely radical position against private gun ownership.

    I blame this on the colleges and on the urbanization of doctors. How many of YOUR colleagues cam from small towns? I'd bet, a small number.

    The unstated requirement of a major in Chemistry or Biology before Med school, the obsession with PERFECT undergrad performance and compliance, give us ZERO good patient response and an orthodox position on a whole host of issues.

    Medical training in the US is a joke. I think the UK or Australia get it far better, with less indoctrination.
     
  15. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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    The two physicians in the article are anti-gun activists who happen to be physicians. On the other hand, there are physicians who support gun ownership Doctors for Responsible Gun Ownership
     
  16. Blue Devil PA

    Blue Devil PA Boise Active Member

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    I am a PA and outside of my military experience, the number of gunshot wounds I have seen/treated are in the very low single digits. Preventable health problems from obesity and smoking... thousands. Seems like there is always money for tobacco, tattoos and fast food. When something happens hundreds of times it is a tragedy, when it happens tens of thousands of times a day it is a foregone conclusion.

    I also agree with people getting gun locks and firearm education for themselves and their children, then practice at least once a month.
     
  17. FourTeeFive

    FourTeeFive PNW Washington State Active Member

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    In the article the FBI is mentioned as saying that guns are involved in only 9% of violent crimes. And somehow these "educated" doctors are saying that the hardware is a disease? They might want to look in the mirror and figure out who is crazy...
     
  18. BSG 75

    BSG 75 Oregon Well-Known Member

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    You know this how? Which medical schools in the US, UK, or Australia did you graduate from?
     
  19. Rascals

    Rascals Portland Or Active Member

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    If I remember right its like 197,000 on average every year. Maybe we should ban assult Doctors.Remember tomarrow the worlds worst Doctor has appointments. Are you on his list?
     
  20. twoclones

    twoclones Tri-Cities, WA Well-Known Member

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    How many people use a Doctor to defend themselves from violent criminals? ;)