Do you think the Portland Police should learn how to disarm persons without firearms.

[lowridedon]

I have a hard time believing this debate. When I was a youngster if you pulled a weapon on a cop everyone knew you were taking a dirt nap. No questions, no problem.

For those who think 60 years old men are easy to take care of, think again. I'm 62, 6 foot 200 pounds and fairly fit. I'm not the man eating bear I was 30 years ago, but I'm not an easy touch either.

I walk by this place at least twice a week, and have seen what I believe was the guy. At least he lived in this spot and was at least my size. I would not have tried to disarm him. As a Nam vet, he had some training in the proper use of a knife.

Not all homeless are mentally ill, some are addicted. At any rate, this could be suicide by cop. If it was, he did everything right.

Also as a vet, he had some help available to get of the street. Viet Nam Veterans of America helps a lot of vet, along with other orgs.

Go to 82cd Ave and drive the area. They want it called the Avenue of Roses, it's more the Avenue of Cracklin' Rosies, between the hookers and winos and druggies. And it gets worse the farther south you go. Check out the area around Foster and out to 112th and down to 72cd. You know,part of what we used to call Felony Flats. You'll understand why I carry.

 

[elsullo]

I have a hard time believing this debate.

Go to 82cd Ave and drive the area. They want it called the Avenue of Roses, it's more the Avenue of Cracklin' Rosies, between the hookers and winos and druggies. And it gets worse the farther south you go. Check out the area around Foster and out to 112th and down to 72cd. You know,part of what we used to call Felony Flats. You'll understand why I carry.

I used to live on 85th just South of Duke, and it was a combat zone of drugs and prostitutes and motorcycle gangs. Midnight on New Years Eve featured a LOT of full-auto gunfire. It was so insane that one night some tweaker even tried to steal my big male DOBERMAN dog! AS IF! I always felt that the police should patrol there WITH GUNS DRAWN!

I am really depressed about all of the cop-bashing in this thread, especially about the incredible ignorance of the reality of knife fighting. You can shoot a knife-wielder and unless you get a brain shot he can STILL slash your throat before he falls! Things happen REAL FAST when somebody lunges at you with a knife! NOBODY SHOULD ASK A COP TO RISK THAT! All of you brave posters who say that the cops should disarm a knife-wielder with martial arts should just practice that a bit with a friend---just be sure to use a sharp and dirty knife to keep it real..........................elsullo

 

[Riot]

Seems that they are building a track record of shootings. Some very warrented, but, some seem that if they were trained better, they would lower their kill rate. This recent one over the weekend of a 60 year old, homeless Viet Nam Vet is very sorryful. There are ways to disarm knife welding assailants, especially if you have a squad of patrol officers. Asian Police have been doing this for countless years--and not shooting the perp. How many mentally ill people have been killed, when in some cases, a less lethal alternaive could have affected the situation. But, likely, the police were never trained in these methods. Sammie is become a public figure at these shootings.

P.S. By example, if several police showed up armed with a pistol and were trained with 40" Escrimasa Riot Sticks, that would do the trick. Simply, take out the legs of the assailant. It is a manditory to show up with a gun, but a crew of officers, with training and sticks, and a few strikes, the legs go out. And of course, this in not an opportunity to beat the person with death with sticks. He'd rather be shot. In this case, the assailant is disarmed without fireing a shot.

I'm going to save this post...I always new that ignorance thrived within the left-wing community- telling cops to shoot people in the legs and such- but in the gun community I just find it laughable.

I just went through a couple days worth of knife fighting and the reality is that you are going to get cut.

God the ignorant, anti-cop stuff that is said in this forum never ceases to surprise me.

 

[keystir]

Sure, I think to attempt to disarm a bad guy first without shooting him as long as the officer is not in danger is a novel idea but It will cost money (higher taxes) in training, manpower, and new technology ( I think they have sound and microwave heat lasers now)

 

[U201494]

Like the bumper sticker says, "Keep Portland Weird"
or insert your own word
"Keep Portland ______".

 

[python287]

I do actually. I don't think I would need to use a firearm to disarm a mentally disabled homeless guy with a knife. Maybe if he was really big and really fit and scary looking. But homeless guys are usually quite the opposite. They should learn some martial arts or something.

OK the next mental guy with a knife - you get to disarm him without any weapons- come on your so eager to recommend it - step an do it ! Well ??

 

[python287]

I'm going to save this post...I always new that ignorance thrived within the left-wing community- telling cops to shoot people in the legs and such- but in the gun community I just find it laughable.

I just went through a couple days worth of knife fighting and the reality is that you are going to get cut.

God the ignorant, anti-cop stuff that is said in this forum never ceases to surprise me.

Amen to that - well said. Did you ever notice that the big liberal smucks who blast the police - talk big - except when the real thing happens and then see them run and call 9-1-1 - Sorry Liberal Kool-Aid drinking police haters - I'm also guessing you never served in the military either- those that can do - those that can't criticize those that can an do..

So unless your ready to step up and walk the walk STFU - save your big talk for your kool-aid parties..

 

[dmancornell]

^

Weren't you a cop? More proof of the "us vs them" mentality once again, saying mere civilians have no right to criticize the police since they never "served".

Claiming a person needs to serve in the military to criticize the military-industrial complex, or work as a cop to criticize the police state, that is the same saying you have to murder to know it's wrong.

 

[python287]

Were I still am - I just get tired of people who come to this forum to bash the police for doing their job- "disarm people with knives without firearms" "shot them in the leg" - it is one thing to criticize the police - it's quite another to tell them how wrong they are - when those complaining have no idea what a Police Officer goes thru.

While it may be your first amendment right to bash the police every chance you get - it's also my right to call BS on it..

 

[dmancornell]

^

What a police officer "goes through" is 100% irrelevant. Neither does intent, no matter how philanthropic. Only the morality of the end result matters.

I don't think cops should have to try to disarm a tweaker wielding a knife with ninja kicks. However, cops have zero power to order anyone around if they are minding their own business. This particular guy obviously was minding other peoples' business, so it seems justified.

But if a cop ordered me to stop and lie down when I'm just walking down the street, he can shove it because he has no authority to do so.

 

[U201494]

How did you get to this:

^

Weren't you a cop? More proof of the "us vs them" mentality once again, saying mere civilians have no right to criticize the police since they never "served".

Claiming a person needs to serve in the military to criticize the military-industrial complex, or work as a cop to criticize the police state, that is the same saying you have to murder to know it's wrong.

From this?

Amen to that - well said. Did you ever notice that the big liberal smucks who blast the police - talk big - except when the real thing happens and then see them run and call 9-1-1 - Sorry Liberal Kool-Aid drinking police haters - I'm also guessing you never served in the military either- those that can do - those that can't criticize those that can an do..

So unless your ready to step up and walk the walk STFU - save your big talk for your kool-aid parties..

Probably get your kool-aid in a keg or 55 gal. drum.

I'll endorse python287.

 

[keystir]

Amen to that - well said. Did you ever notice that the big liberal smucks who blast the police - talk big - except when the real thing happens and then see them run and call 9-1-1 - Sorry Liberal Kool-Aid drinking police haters - I'm also guessing you never served in the military either- those that can do - those that can't criticize those that can an do..

So unless your ready to step up and walk the walk STFU - save your big talk for your kool-aid parties..

As a smuck liberal kool-aid drinking police loving veteran I resent that you're trying to turn this debate into a liberal vs. conservative. Everyone is allowed to have their opinions whether they have served in the military or not. And since you brought it up lets talk about some hypocrisy on the right. Did YOU ever notice that most of the big, rich neo-con schmucks who felt it was our God given right and obligation to to start multiple wars leading to the deaths of thousands of our bravest men and women not only didn't serve in the military themselves but some went way out of their way to not have to? Save your liberal bashing and STFU acronyms for YOURE kool-aid parties friend.

 

[dmancornell]

How did you get to this:



From this?



Probably get your kool-aid in a keg or 55 gal. drum.

I'll endorse python287.

Hrm, maybe it's this line: "So unless your ready to step up and walk the walk"

 

[JohnWayne]

What about OC spray + baton? I understand the rational behind everyone here backing up the cops for shooting an armed assailant. But there are more options than just shooting to kill. I have personally disarmed someone with a knife, it's scary, but not impossible. Was I lucky not to get cut? Yep, but I had martial arts training and I used it. Cops need more training plain and simple.

I'd say you were lucky. I can also tell you that officers do and did use other options before shooting. I think you'd be surprised how much training cops get.

On an aside, I'm glad you were ok in your incident.

 

[WhyteCheddar]

As a smuck liberal kool-aid drinking police loving veteran I resent that you're trying to turn this debate into a liberal vs. conservative. Everyone is allowed to have their opinions whether they have served in the military or not. And since you brought it up lets talk about some hypocrisy on the right. Did YOU ever notice that most of the big, rich neo-con schmucks who felt it was our God given right and obligation to to start multiple wars leading to the deaths of thousands of our bravest men and women not only didn't serve in the military themselves but some went way out of their way to not have to? Save your liberal bashing and STFU acronyms for YOURE kool-aid parties friend.

Those war going decisions were/are made by politicians from both sides of the aisle. Right or wrong notwithstanding, your blame is just as poorly misplaced.

 

[marty8587]

When the Police told the man to drop the knife, they were attempting to disarm him peacfully and without incident, Enough said.

 

[keystir]

Those war going decisions were/are made by politicians from both sides of the aisle. Right or wrong notwithstanding, your blame is just as poorly misplaced.

Is this a joke? You can't be serious. These Wars were sold to us through lies and deceit by a bunch of the biggest chicken hawks to ever grace politics. Remember the mobile missile launch sites or the mushroom cloud scare tactics. The lefties may have been guilty of caving to political pressure and scare tactics trying to not look soft on defense but to somehow believe that these Wars would have been executed the same if a dem or any other republican was in office would be "misplaced"

And for you righties who want to pawn off Afghanistan on Obama now you folks are smoother than a dealer at a blackjack table; dealer change, dealer change!! your problem now.

 

[marty8587]

Maybe the chief in Rainier tried to be a little to sensitive. Now a tweeker lives and a good mans family is alone.

 

[slingshot1943]

I think police could create a stand off more often than not and buy time to come to a more desirable out come.

 

[lowridedon]

Maybe the chief in Rainier tried to be a little to sensitive. Now a tweeker lives and a good mans family is alone.

Amen to that. We have good friends that live in the hills above Ranier and we spend a lot of time up there. That whole area is hurting tonight.