Do you have plans to bug out of the country?

[VancouverKid]

What do you do with your house, cars, guns, everything else that you literally can't stuff into the back of a cab on your way to the airport? Where will you go? Are you planning to drive north across the line and learn to play hockey and say eh?

I can't imagine leaving my friends and family and everything else I know. I'm planning to stay and fight for my country and way of life if shtf, but I guess if it came down to it I might consider fleeing.

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[knuckle Head]

Well I have moved a lot for jobs, I currently do not have family here where I am and friends, well friends are friends, most are not prepared like I am and will not make it in a shtf scenario. Where I am currently I have what I need to live on, but is not ideal for longterm shtf situation. I have family a days drive by interstate, who are in a prime longterm shtf place and I have been I am wlecome, just bring what I can. Which I do not plant to be able to use interstates like we do know in shtf scenario.

I do however have a picup made for the ride and more than enough hidden in a secure location and protected 24/7 by the property owners dogs, the fuel is properly stored and rotated yearly.

Trailer, well i know three place locally where I could get one either by trade or midnight acquisition at low risk. By the end of this year I plan to either be relocated or have a trailer of my own located 100 yds, from my residence in a fenced in guard dog 24/7 protected location.

Planning, planning, planning the army taught me how to plan for a bugout and we practiced multiple times during the cold war, if your location is not adiquiet for shtf survival then your family and friends need to be on board to relocate in a shtf scenario, if not you will die with them.

I know I sound cruel, but those know me, know I am not. I am realist who knows what it takes to survive and that if others are not on board they are a liability and we each have to decide are stay and die out of loyalty to people who may or may not do the same for you or do we regroup and survive.

news flash, majority of family memebers and friends would leave you in a heart beat if if meant they and their household would survive, lots of jews died in Nazi Germany out of loyalty to people who later fled them or turned on them

 

[ATCclears]

I am originally from Canada and have spoken with friends who are also preparing there (they are going through the additional motions to acquire a few weapons and ammo). The consensus is that if there was a substantial economic problem in the US then two things would occur in Canada.

First, Canada itself would have a serious financial problem since it is so tightly coupled to the US due to exports.

Second, Canada and its social services would be quickly overwhelmed by refugees (aka illegals) from the US. Canada has approximately 1/10 the population of the US, so even just a million people fleeing into Canada would be a serious challenge.

So, I would not include Canada in your plans unless you have a plan to generate income and take care of yourself (including medical care).

Peter

 

[mosinguy1]

If it is an economical collapse of the U.S. that would make one flee to another country. You might want to rethink things because when we collapse it will be a domino effect on the rest of the world, unless you want to move to say China.

If you have medical training and are near the canadian border it may be a location to look at, but as stated above you need to be completely self sufficent or have a way to make some sort of income.

When the economy tanks out you had better be where you want to be if out of country is your choice.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

I have a hard and fast rule. Never, ever, become a refugee! The world has an abysmal record of the treatment of refugees! Even so called "enlightened societies", such as, the Allies during and after WW2, ran internment camps with its inmates on near starvation rations with little proper medical care. So where are you going to go? Canada would do its best, but....., Mexico wouldn't even try! All the airports, everywhere, would be the entrance gate right into a camp! That is if commercial aircraft are flying at all! I can see a scenario where a person with enough gold could bribe his way to some semblance of security, but I think it more likely he would simply be disposed of for his wealth.

 

[Silver Fox]

I have a hard and fast rule. Never, ever, become a refugee!

That is what I was going to say. Refugee is a nice PC word for a homeless transient. Nobody like homeless transients especially if they have guns. If you do not have a specific goal in mind or a home to go to you will become a target of local land owners.

SF-

 

[gaijinsamurai]

I have a hard and fast rule. Never, ever, become a refugee! The world has an abysmal record of the treatment of refugees! Even so called "enlightened societies", such as, the Allies during and after WW2, ran internment camps with its inmates on near starvation rations with little proper medical care. So where are you going to go? Canada would do its best, but....., Mexico wouldn't even try! All the airports, everywhere, would be the entrance gate right into a camp! That is if commercial aircraft are flying at all! I can see a scenario where a person with enough gold could bribe his way to some semblance of security, but I think it more likely he would simply be disposed of for his wealth.

Agree. My mother lives in Guatemala, where she has residency. Even though she has a couple of acres in the country, with a good solid wall around the property, locals know she's an American and she's already been the target of attempted home invasions. I have no doubt that if SHTF, her place will be swarmed by looters. She's lived there for over 25 years, has paid her taxes, helped with charities, ran a successful business, and given back, but in the end, she's a foreigner.....

 

[Siglvr]

There is no way I'm leaving my home. Way too much here. But when I look at refugees in general, you'd have to agree that at some point in their lives, 100% percent of them had no idea they would be refugees. So in the event I become one of those through the winds of change, in addition to the things I will carry to start a new life, I have a collection of Canadian stocks only and would intend to head that way knowing I could walk the 300 plus miles there with the lightweight garden cart I bought my wife brimming over with things I'd need en route. Besides, I can speak the Canadian language, which is a big plus.

Rather take a sail boat in the event that an auto isn't possible, with that eventuality in mind I crewed on a racing boat to learn how to handle one in the event that is the way it unfolds. Planning on staying here but have contingencies.

As far as Canada not taking refugees, I'd worry about that when I get there. They have an unguarded border for the most part. Manys the time I've crossed borders where there was no demarcation and no personal to stop me. I once worked for a guy (Max Bernbach) that made it into Switzerland from Germany and the Swiss were not taking refugees either. He hired anyone looking for work who had not made it and got stuffed into a concentration camp: tattoos on forearms, and the difference in their lives was striking to me. Who saw that coming in 1934-36? My point is that none of us can predict the events which may or may not be heading our way in the future, but an action plan in the event of extreme craziness isn't a bad idea.

 

[EZLivin]

So, I would not include Canada in your plans unless you have a plan to generate income and take care of yourself (including medical care).

I agree. Canada is one of our options since I could get in via my wife (Canadian) but I wouldn't do it unless I could continue my own work up there (which I could, at least now). But I sure as heck would want to be proactive and get set up there prior to SHTF here. That includes owning property there (other than what in-laws have).

Our plan is (in this order):

1st: Prepare where we are.

2nd: Move east of the mountains when able, close to the Canadian border (Idaho preferably). Getting the heck out of this moron-infested "wet side" of the Pacific Northwest, that appears to be absolutely determined to destroy itself via taxes and repressive legislations, is our goal. And if we do have to stay in OR (or WA) for some reason, it will be far enough away from the population centers (and in a decent county) that hopefully we will not be bothered.

3rd: Relocate to Canada, or prepare to take long vacations there, if needed.

 

[kickstart my heart]

I don't own my home (I rent) so if the SHTF, I'm not emotionally attached to it. Plus if society collapsed economically, my landlord would come looking for rent due that I would really be able to pay most likely (no economy = no jobs = no way to pay for things). I'd most likely head for my folks place. Fenced acre with a massive dirt wall and tiny driveway entrance, creek/pond in the back yard, creek, garden and greenhouse, fenced on all sides. It'd be more easy to defend, they own it, there's a couple cars they don't car about that could be used as barricades, my dad is a combat vet (ex Ranger), we'd have food and water, it's enough away from the big city that people won't immediately head there to loot, he has a garage full of tools and both of us have mechanical know how, and they have a wood stove (cooked on it when the power would go out growing up). The challenge would be getting there. My main concern would be getting my firearms/ammo/supplies there. All my other material stuff like tv, video game system, books, music, movies, etc., don't mean so much to me that I couldn't walk away in an emergency.

The really tricky decision would be, do I leave at the first hint of trouble and try to brave traffic with a trunk full of firearms and ammo (that if the roads are blocked and I can't drive further, I'll likely have to leave most of them behind), do I wait it out till it's already full scale and hope the roads are cleared or I can walk the 70 miles on foot (having to leave most everything behind) and risk their property being over run/looted/them being harmed by someone by the time I get there, or do I sit tight and find a way to defend where I live and burn through my resources?

 

[mosinguy1]

I don't own my home (I rent) so if the SHTF, I'm not emotionally attached to it. Plus if society collapsed economically, my landlord would come looking for rent due that I would really be able to pay most likely (no economy = no jobs = no way to pay for things). I'd most likely head for my folks place. Fenced acre with a massive dirt wall and tiny driveway entrance, creek/pond in the back yard, creek, garden and greenhouse, fenced on all sides. It'd be more easy to defend, they own it, there's a couple cars they don't car about that could be used as barricades, my dad is a combat vet (ex Ranger), we'd have food and water, it's enough away from the big city that people won't immediately head there to loot, he has a garage full of tools and both of us have mechanical know how, and they have a wood stove (cooked on it when the power would go out growing up). The challenge would be getting there. My main concern would be getting my firearms/ammo/supplies there. All my other material stuff like tv, video game system, books, music, movies, etc., don't mean so much to me that I couldn't walk away in an emergency.

The really tricky decision would be, do I leave at the first hint of trouble and try to brave traffic with a trunk full of firearms and ammo (that if the roads are blocked and I can't drive further, I'll likely have to leave most of them behind), do I wait it out till it's already full scale and hope the roads are cleared or I can walk the 70 miles on foot (having to leave most everything behind) and risk their property being over run/looted/them being harmed by someone by the time I get there, or do I sit tight and find a way to defend where I live and burn through my resources?

Have you thought of storing most of your weaponry at your folks? Only keep what you need to travel by night and get to your folks ASAP. Then you wouldnt have to worry about having to leave any behind. Also God forbid something should happen to you in your travels , but it would keep your folks that much more prepared.

 

[kickstart my heart]

My biggest concern is that I store most of my guns there, and then not be able to get there (I live in Kitsap county and they live in North end of Snohomish county). Plus, my folks growing up were weird about having "a lot of guns" stored at their house. My dad's side of the family went through the Bolsheviks, rise of Communism in the Soviet Union, Stalin and his purges, being POW slave labor to the Nazi's in WWII, etc. My dad grew up very paranoid of police. He refered to all of them as "Commies". He'd keep a couple guns in the house, but one time he found out I had like 60 rifles (most of the AR's, AK's, HK91's, SKS's, etc) stored at their house and freaked out. He was convinced the cops were going to come to his house and throw him in jail for having an "arsenal of weapons". I'm sure if I told my folks I wanted to store a dozen black rifles and several thousand rounds of ammo, it'd be met with resistance.

 

[mosinguy1]

Kick,
Any other family near them?

 

[Oathkeeper1775]

Staying close to home and hopefully assimilate with like-minded people to form a small but moral community after the need arises (shtf). My idea of morality can be explained by reading Kant's Categorical Imperatives since the "R" topic isn't allowed here.

This should be happening now, the thought-process is that too much can be (is being) said before the "event". It is best to discretely sum-up the people you encounter so you have a better idea whom to approach and whom to avoid.

There were several social science debates that ran their course several times during my adult education; there is a bunker, a life-ending event, there is only room for 10 people in the bunker, and there is the fate of 20 people to discern. The arguments will surprise you, that would be a good topic/thread here too, but are 3 examples:
Would you let an elderly married couple (M/F) enter the bunker or a young fertile couple (M/F)?
Would you let a Medical Doctor enter the bunker or a Dentist?
Would you let a young boy and young girl enter the bunker or two old nuns?
Etc. It is a great debate and the participants will show their true colors; I promise!

I promise you, the people who are currently powerful will try to remain in power; they will garner support (already have) and fund road blocks, check points and other quasi-governments that will impede your freedoms of maneuver.

 

[Asp]

To the OP: No.

Reason:
[video=youtube_share;1tqxzWdKKu8]http://youtu.be/1tqxzWdKKu8[/video]

 

[kickstart my heart]

Kick,
Any other family near them?

My girlfriends family lives 2 miles down the road. I'd hate to store stuff there. Never know when relationships might go south and end.

 

[ATCclears]

» Should You Move To Another Country To Escape The Collapse Of America? 10 Questions To Ask Yourself First Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

Why are so many people leaving the United States right now? Over the past couple of years, an increasing number of Americans have decided that moving to another country is the best way to prepare for the collapse of America. According to the U.S. State Department, an all-time record of more than 6 million Americans are now working or studying overseas. Of course many of those that have left the country do not believe that the U.S. economy is going to collapse, but without a doubt there are an increasing number of preppers that believe that now is the time to "escape from America" while they still can. And certainly there are a lot of reasons why the U.S. is becoming less appealing with each passing day. In addition to our economic problems, crime is on the rise in our cities, our liberties and freedoms are being eroded at a frightening pace, political correctness is wildly out of control, and our corrupt politicians continue to make things even worse. But is life really that much better in the rest of the world? The sad truth is that life in most other nations is more difficult than it is in the United States. Yes, there are some nations that are relatively stable and that look promising at first glance, but the truth is that moving to another country is never easy. If you plan to do it, there are some hard questions that you need to ask yourself first.

If you plan to move permanently to another nation, it would be wise to visit first. The way that things work in a foreign country is often very, very different from how things work in the United States. If you are not accustomed to being in a foreign culture, it can feel like your whole world is being turned upside down.

But of course it is definitely possible to make a successful transition to another culture. Millions of Americans have done it. The following is from a recent RT article...

Ever dream of leaving it all behind and heading out of America? You're not the only one. A new study shows that more US citizens than ever before are living outside of the country.

According to statistics from the US State Department, around 6.4 million Americans are either working or studying overseas, which Gallup says is the largest number ever for such statistic.

The polling organization came across the number after conducting surveys in 135 outside nations and the information behind the numbers reveal that this isn't exactly a longtime coming either — numbers have skyrocketed only in recent years. In the 24 months before polling began, the number of Americans between the ages of 25 and 34 living abroad managed to surge from barely 1 percent to over 5.1 percent. For those under the age span wishing to move overseas, the percentage has jumped in the same amount of time from 15 percent to 40.

But picking up and moving to a foreign nation is not something to be done lightly.

The following are 10 questions to ask yourself before you decide to move to another country...

Do You Speak The Language? If Not, How Will You Function?

If you do not speak the language of the country that you are moving to, that can create a huge problem. Just going to the store and buying some food will become a challenge. Every interaction that you have with anyone in that society will be strained, and your ability to integrate into the culture around you will be greatly limited.

How Will You Make A Living?

Unless you are independently wealthy, you will need to make money. In a foreign nation, it may be very difficult for you to find a job – especially one that pays as much as you are accustomed to making in the United States.

Will You Be Okay Without Your Family And Friends?

Being thousands of miles away from all of your family and friends can be extremely difficult. Will you be okay without them? And it can be difficult to survive in a foreign culture without any kind of a support system. Sometimes the people that most successfully move out of the country are those that do it as part of a larger group.

Have You Factored In Weather Patterns And Geological Instability?

As the globe becomes increasingly unstable, weather patterns and natural disasters are going to become a bigger factor in deciding where to live. For example, right now India is suffering through the worst drought that it has experienced in nearly 50 years. It would be very difficult to thrive in the middle of such an environment.

Many of those that are encouraging people to "escape from America" are pointing to Chile as an ideal place to relocate to. But there are thousands of significant earthquakes in Chile each year, and the entire nation lies directly along the "Ring of Fire" which is becoming increasingly unstable. That is something to keep in mind.

What Will You Do For Medical Care?

If you or someone in your family had a serious medical problem in the United States, you would know what to do. Yes, our health care system is incredibly messed up, but at least you would know that you could get the care that you needed if an emergency arose. Would the same be true in a foreign nation?

Are You Moving Into A High Crime Area?

Yes, crime is definitely on the rise in the United States. But in other areas where many preppers are moving to, crime is even worse. Mexico and certain areas of Central America are two examples of this. And in many foreign nations, the police are far more corrupt than they generally are in the United States.

In addition, many other nations have far stricter gun laws than the United States does, so your ability to defend your family may be greatly restricted.

So will your family truly be safe in the nation that you plan to take them to?

Are You Prepared For "Culture Shock"?

Moving to another country can be like moving to a different planet. After all, they don't call it "culture shock" for nothing.

If you do move to another country, you may quickly find that thousands of little things that you once took for granted in the U.S. are now very different.

And there is a very good chance that many of the "amenities" that you are accustomed to in the U.S. will not be available in a foreign nation and that your standard of living will go down.

So if you are thinking of moving somewhere else, you may want to visit first just to get an idea of what life would be like if you made the move.

What Freedoms and Liberties Will You Lose By Moving?

Yes, our liberties and our freedoms are being rapidly eroded in the United States. But in many other nations around the world things are much worse. You may find that there is no such thing as "freedom of speech" or "freedom of religion" in the country that you have decided to move to.

Is There A Possibility That The Country You Plan To Escape To Could Be Involved In A War At Some Point?

We are moving into a time of great geopolitical instability. If you move right into the middle of a future war zone, you might really regret it. If you do plan to move, try to find a country that is likely to avoid war for the foreseeable future.

When The Global Economy Collapses, Will You And Your Family Be Okay For Food?

What good will it be to leave the United States if you and your family run out of food?

Today, we are on the verge of a major global food crisis. Global food reserves are at their lowest level in nearly 40 years, and shifting global weather patterns are certainly not helping things.

And the global elite are rapidly getting more control over the global food supply. Today, between 75 and 90 percent of all international trade in grain is controlled by just four gigantic multinational food corporations.

But grain is not the only thing that the food giants control. Just check out the following statistics from a recent Natural News article...

The paper said three mega-multinationals now control better than 40 percent of global coffee sales, for example. Eight companies control the supply of cocoa and chocolate. Seven control the lion's share – 85 percent – of tea production. Five multinationals control three-quarters of the world banana trade. And the largest half-dozen sugar traders account for about 66 percent of world trade, the new report by theFairtrade Foundation said.

The elite are also buying up food producing real estate all over the globe. That is why farmland prices in the United States have been absolutely skyrocketing lately.

The people that run the world are rapidly getting a stranglehold over the global food supply.

So wherever you end up – whether it is in the United States or in another country – you will need to make sure that you can provide enough food for you and your family to live on independently of the system.

These are all things to think about when considering whether or not to move out of the United States.

But there are many, including some of those that regularly read my website, that have made the transition successfully.

If you have some advice that you would like to share with those that are considering moving away from America, please feel free to share it below...

 

[AMProducts]

Here's the thing, canada is great and all, but how is jumping out of one bad situation and into another a valid solution? What does canada have that the US doesn't, especially coming from the PNW? Water? Food? Shelter? Not really, no, and no.

The thing is "bugging out" without somewhere to go is a failing strategy. If I have to bug out you know where I'm going? either to family property in norcal, or to what eventually will be the cabin in the woods I'm planning to buy at some point (in fact, I'm planning to live there full time). Things are going to have to be pretty bad for you to abandon your home, things can be orders of magnitude worse if you don't have room to grow some food, a steady supply of water, however such is apartment and suburban life. This is a major reason why urban and suburban living are eschewed by most avowed survivalists. These lifestyles require a significant amount of energy input to maintain (food that is grown on a factory farm, and then transported to the grocery store) is fundamentally less secure than trading food with your neighbor, meat for grain, grain for milk, eggs for fruit, etc etc.

If you look at most places in the world, they are dominated by tribes and clans, whether religious, ethnic, cultural. People of one tribe have no qualms about using all kinds of violence against people of the other tribe to get what they want. If you are a tribe of one... or a tribe of five, doesn't really matter too much until you're a tribe of fifty or more.

This is a fact that doesn't really register with most americans because we do not have, and have never had a tribal society, the world wars were an extension of european tribalism, and much of the violence that goes on in africa, the middle-east, south america, and south east asia is predicated right along tribal lines.

As such, you can form a tribe of your own, however it must be composed of willing participants who rely on each other for support. For the sake of this argument, most civil governments in this country are nothing more than an extension of tribalism.

 

[ATCclears]

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[ATCclears]

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