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Do we need a new class of CCW??

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by CasualShooter, Jul 21, 2012.

  1. CasualShooter

    CasualShooter Des Moines New Member

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    I've seen a couple articles bemoaning the fact that had there been an armed citizen in the theater the Aurora mass murderer may have been stopped. Maybe so.

    Do we need a more advanced level of concealed carry. One where qualified individuals are allowed to concealed carry the same as Law Enforcement, even in places it is normally forbidden.

    I don't think this level of carry should be easy to qualify for. It would require a lot of knowlege and demonatrated skills.

    Just a thought. Any opinions?
  2. Phrank

    Phrank Forest Grove Active Member

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    I think the fact that we even need to have CCW is a sad infringement on 2A rights. The battle between private property (restrictions) and constitutional rights is another area of ambiguity. I believe that the home = castle and the right of the owner to set terms within legal and constitutional parameters, but with businesses / public places, the grey area opens wide. Personally, if it's not a residence, I don't think that limiting any rights is valid. Flame away or agree, it's my opinion.

  3. dmancornell

    dmancornell Portland, OR New Member

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    No. Constitutional carry is the only way. The very fact that police are allowed to carry where civilians aren't is an affront to liberty.
    Redcap, chemist, PBinWA and 27 others like this.
  4. jonn5335

    jonn5335 Longview Active Member

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    I agree with the two post above. I usually won't shop at a business that discriminates against carring
    carracer and (deleted member) like this.
  5. keystir

    keystir Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    Instead of just shouting "Constitutional carry or nothing" and taking your ball and going home, why not take the same approach as many anti gun folks and work chip away at gun restrictions wherever you can. I think the OP has a good idea and would be an effective way to expand the rights of gun owners.
  6. joken

    joken Corvallis Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I would carry whether it was prohibited or not. Would you prefer to dead or in a bit of trouble?
    orygun, Grunwald, dw21gw21 and 3 others like this.
  7. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    I believe there is validity to this approach. We have to ask permission in most states to carry. Doubt anything like this will ever happen though.
  8. duran21

    duran21 Lacey Active Member

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    na, I dont think we should have different levels of CCWs... We should have the freedom to carry anywhere. The idea of "gun free zones" (unless your a government official) is silly and creates soft spots for shootings.
  9. sandman1212

    sandman1212 NW Oregon Active Member

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    I agree with phrank! If it is not a personal residence, then limiting our rights to carry or anything else should not be allowed!
  10. JackThompson

    JackThompson Valley of the Demons Well-Known Member

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    +1 to Phrank!
  11. darkminstrel

    darkminstrel PDX Well-Known Member

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    CC in an anti-CC establishment and get found out? Trespassing charge.

    Obey the rules in an anti-CC establishment when bad guy walks in? Dead.

    Which one would you prefer?
  12. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I'd rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6!
  13. shayne

    shayne port townsend Active Member

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    yeah one of my somewhat new to ccw friends was talkin about how he would have stopped the shooter. I was like oh yeah with your short barreled 40 cal in a crowded dark theater against a well armed and armored shooter. good luck.
  14. soberups

    soberups Newberg Well-Known Member

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    In Oregon at least, "no weapons allowed" signs really arent applicable to holders of concealed handgun permits. You are only in violation of the law if they see your weapon and ask you to leave, and you refuse to do so. At that point, you are guilty of simple trespassing, nothing more.

    That being said, it is highly unlikely that the presence of an armed civilian with a carry permit (and there may indeed have been such a person or persons present that we havent heard about) at the theater in Colorado would have materially affected the outcome of the massacre. The odds that a civilian armed with a handgun could have (a) determined during the shooting that the perpetrator was wearing body armor and (b) instantly responded in a dark, crowded, chaotic theater full of screaming and dying people by successfully making a head shot on the perp with a handgun....are slim indeed.
  15. keystir

    keystir Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    You're right, one person with an LCP stuffed in his tightie whities might be a little overmatched, but if only 10 people in the theater were armed that might tip the scales a little I think. Also, if concealed carry were more prevalent it might make some of these folks think twice about what they're planning on doing knowing that a significant number of their targeted victims may have a different idea in mind.
  16. osterr1999

    osterr1999 Silverton, OR Active Member

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    One thing you have to remember is that just because the person is wearing body armor doesn't mean that you need a head shot. Ask anyone who has been shot wearing a vest, it hurts like hell and will knock you back. Remember that you are absorbing the energy of that bullet with your body. It is quite frequent for ribs to be bruised or even broken. Would it have killed the shooter? No. Would it have stopped him from shooting? Maybe. Would it have allowed people to escape while you were engaging him? Absolutely.
    duran21, dw21gw21, Grunwald and 5 others like this.
  17. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    I think we need a new level of lawsuit.

    One where a ballsy lawyer sues a theater/store etc. for disarming their patrons, thereby leaving them susceptible to nut-jobs in body armor hell-bent on mass murder.
    It was no coincidence that Holmes chose a "gun-free" zone, anymore than the VA Tech, Oakland/Oikos, U of Alberta, Northern Illinois, etc shooters chose theirs.

    Of course the other ones were all college campuses, and Holmes was a college student, as was Jared Loughner, so maybe we should remind the pundits that the problem isn't guns at all, but possibly colleges, and their influence on students!!
    Doubletap, Bob D, Glockman19 and 5 others like this.
  18. Bob D

    Bob D Oregon, Cascades Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a good point that these guys pick soft targets. If this attack had been made at a midnight screening at a theater in Madras, or Goldendale, or even Sandy... There would have been weapons there and they would have been used. This guy was obviously scared of the much lower possibility that someone in the Aurora theater was armed, or he wouldn't have bothered with the armor... He definitely wouldn't have tried this in a Rural area where 1 in 10 citizens are carrying. (Often whether they have a License or not.)

    Since Friday, I've stepped up my carrying status. I have been a "usually carry" person. I am now an "always carry" person.
  19. duane black

    duane black Washington Well-Known Member

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    Man, you and I both. I'm new to WA and do have a CPL. I wasn't planning on carrying much until this event and even then it was going to be a 5 shot j frame model 60.

    Think I'm going to carry something more substantial now, always. Still don't know if I would be successful challenging a man wearing body armor with a carbine with my Glock 22, sobering thought.

    Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2
  20. lamrith

    lamrith tacoma Active Member

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