Do modern micro-9mm pistols make the .380 obsolete?

[Doubletap]

I'll carry a .380 if I'm only wearing a pair of shorts..or as a BUG..only because I can slip it in my back pocket..under my wallet.. But..otherwise..I carry the largest caliber practical.. If I'm wearing anything other than a pair of shorts..(any kind of shirt)..my MK9 is more than concealable..and usually my CBOB is concealable enough.. In most cases..micro 9's are only marginally larger than a .380..and as it's already been stated..pack a whole lot more punch...

 

[batcat6]

I have a Keltec P3AT and a Keltec P11. Both are great guns. They pack nicely with the beltclip. The P11 is loaded with very fast 115 gr Gold Dots (1400fps). Makes it the ideal carry piece. The P3AT is so small that I forget I have it...no I don't!

 

[Natty Bumpo]

No way.

There will always be a need for smaller and lighter pistols in a dimunitive pistol and in a necessarily reduced caliber. If the LCP pistol were available in .45 at the LCP price and with the LCP's handling, then I might be worried about the future of the .380.......or the .32 for that matter.

The .32 and.380's have long been with us and have been sold to millions who have wanted something small, but with a modicum of powere. This has been the case for as long as the 9mm, .38 and .45 have been around and it still holds true. These .32/.380's sold quite well in former days, when perfectly good larger caliber, larger sized, heavier weight pistols were available at similar prices, as is the case today.

Are not the Kel Tec's and the LCP are not selling well? That is clear evidence that not everyone wants "the largest caliber they can conceivably carry." It is also because the the .380 platform has been downsized to an appealing degree in size, in weight and in strength......as have the 9mm, the .38 and .45 in their respective platforms.

 

[Gunner3456]

My Kel Tec PF-9 and P3AT both feed JHP just fine, but I did do a fluff and buff on the feed ramps.

There is a big difference in size between those two guns if you want to drop one in a pocket.

I know several guys who have lots of expensive guns who carry the Kel-Tecs or Ruger LCP.

I doubt if the .380 will become obsolete any time real soon. There have been so many 380 pistols sold in the past few years including the ones just mentioned, and they still seem to sell well.

$.02

 

[CaughtSteelin]

I think .380's will stay and not become obsolete. There's a lot out there for one. The ammo is a little spendy. But it's really not a target gun. I usually only shoot 50-60 rounds through mine when I go out, compared to 150-200 rds with other guns. The P3AT is concealable for all kinds of activity's. I can fit it in my pants, waders, gym shorts, sweatshirts without feeling awkward. I can shoot a P3AT but not a PF9. The 9mm has just a little to much recoil for me and bad grip. Also the price for a pocket gun is amazing compared to micro larger calibers.

For my .380 I went to reloading them with starline brass/berry's copper plated bullets. Made a thousand for $200. Solved the high ammo price problem.

 

[Gunner3456]

I traded a fine member here for 1,500 empty .380 cases as part of a larger deal.

I was able to buy all of the components to reload them with Hornady XTP/HP 95gr for $305. I load them very slightly hot - 1,000 fps.

 

[9MilMan]

I think the .380 will slowly fade away. Manufacturers will produce more Kahr/Keltec sized 9mms. I can easily carry a CW9 (not even the smallest Kahr) unnoticed in a IWB holster under even a light untucked shirt and shorts. It is so easy, I don't know why you'd want to take up a pocket for a pistol. Just my $00.02.

 

[cwegga]

...I can easily carry a CW9 (not even the smallest Kahr) unnoticed in a IWB holster under even a light untucked shirt and shorts. It is so easy, I don't know why you'd want to take up a pocket for a pistol. Just my $00.02.

Some of us are tall...I really struggle to find shirts that are long enough to support IWB carry. Large and extra large talls are good but I could really probably use a double tall if they make such a thing. I'm not able to carry at work but if I did, my job would make IWB carry very hard. I work in IT and have to crawl under desks reasonably often.

Being able to bend over without worrying about printing or flashing is one reason to pocket carry.

 

[raindog]

Probably also up there in price. I looked up the Rohrbaugh and I thought it looked like a Seecamp but in 9mm. Excellent looking/working pistol as per the review I read. I would love to have one, but will just have to go on the wish-list.

It's not on mine. They state that the recoil spring must be changed every 100 rounds. No thanks.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

It's not on mine. They state that the recoil spring must be changed every 100 rounds. No thanks.

Talk about doggy something without trying it. You might want to read this thread.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312390

 

[raindog]

I think the .380 will slowly fade away.

You may be right, but personally I disagree. I think concealed carry is continuing to gain in popularity. We're past the guys who've carried for years now and the ex-cops who think nothing of strapping a 1911 on their belt. Now the gun companies are marketing to people who want small guns, and the .380 will have an edge there.

True, the micro-9s have more punch, but manufacturers will always be able to get 380s smaller, and for some people that difference counts.

I think the .380 is growing in popularity...but like you, I'm only speculating.

 

[raindog]

Talk about doggy something without trying it. You might want to read this thread.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312390

Whether it's 100 rounds to 300 rounds, that's still ridiculous.

Let me check...how often should I replace the recoil spring on my Glock...oh that's right, they don't list it because it's not something you have to do every time you go to the range! I've read ~5000 rounds. Probably similar for Sig, etc. And those guns cost less than half what a Rohrbaugh does.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Whether it's 100 rounds to 300 rounds, that's still ridiculous.

Let me check...how often should I replace the recoil spring on my Glock...oh that's right, they don't list it because it's not something you have to do every time you go to the range! I've read ~5000 rounds. Probably similar for Sig, etc. And those guns cost less than half what a Rohrbaugh does.

Actually, if you contact them they suggest 600-750 rounds on the G26 and G27. That is similar to what Rohrbaugh suggests when you call them (500) for it's much smaller pistol. Glock just doesn't publicize that info because it would interfere with their "perfection" branding that so many people foolishly believe. No spring is good forever. Anyone with any mechanical knowledge that actually properly cares for their pistol would ever fail to understand the importance of recoil spring condition. They are cheap and easy to replace. There is never a reason to take a chance on them.

 

[NoAim]

So here's another question:

Would you find that .38 Special is not an adequate self-defense round?

 

[tionico]

I bought a Kahr MK 40 a while back for a small carry gun.... almost identical in size to the PK/PM 9. IWB, it almost disappears. Great gun, I like its feel, fit, quality, etc...... BUT, as an avid road cyclist, it is too large to carry on my person (and I've already made the decision that my cycling carry piece will be ON ME, not in a bag on the bike).

SO--- I went on the hunt once more, and the best thing I could find, and it works perfectly, is the LCP. It is small enough, and light enough, to drop into the back corner pocket on my riding jersey, and is so small it is almost not there.

Now, in a real confrontation with some creeps, which would I rather have in my hand? Of course, the Kahr. BUT--- it is so much bigger I won't carry it in that pocket... thus it likely will not BE in my hand when the BG's are coming at me.

My guess is that, from the perspective of the BG, the LCP will give about 98% of the pause factor the Kahr would, in the same circumstances. But, given that the Kahr is not practical to have on the road, and the LCP is, that two percent pause factor drop will be insignificant.

at least, that is the theory. But, since the Kahr won't be with me on the road, out riding, the accuracy of the theory is moot..... the Ruger will do whatever it does, which will be far better than attempting to subdue a creep with a half-full 3/4 litre water bottle, or a cheap plastic tyre pump weighing six ounces.....


For me, bottom line, the LCP fills a very distinct and specific need not able to be filled by anything else out there I've seen or heard of. SO---- I've got one of each.
Now, the hunt for civilly priced ammunition for the LCP continues..... so far, anything I've found is overpriced. And not very available.

 

[Gunner3456]

So here's another question:

Would you find that .38 Special is not an adequate self-defense round?

I think that as a round it's perfectly adequate. As a gun that shoots it, I don't care for the low capacity or the time it takes to reload. I traded my last wheel gun away yesterday. It was a 5 shot "detective special snubby." I also found it harder to conceal than some 9mm autos which have comparable if not superior power, higher capacity and faster reload with a simple mag swap.

$.02

 

[Gunner3456]

Gunner: If you sold a Colt Detective Special it held 6 rounds, not 5. A Smith & Wesson Chiefs Special holds 5 rounds. And I carry a S&W model 60 as an off-duty/ back up weapon because it offers 'five rounds every time' unlike some semi-auto pistols that jam at the moment of truth. To each his own.

No offense, but do you really think that I owned a gun for 30 years and don't know how many rounds it holds, LOL? My bad on naming it.

Here's a pic of it. It's a Rossi clone of a Smith model 36 - five shot. It's a VERY well done clone with an excellent fit and finish, excellent trigger etc. It holds 5 shots. It's all stainless.

I traded a member here (actually completed the deal yesterday) for his Winchester Defender 12 ga riot gun, +/- some ammo and other things we traded. (speaking of rounds, how 'bout dem 3" 00 bucks?)

 

[NoAim]

So according to Playboy, that gun is obviously outclassed by other small revolvers, with the caliber not being adequate enough.

From a LCR:
Ammunition Bullet Weight Velocity
Buffalo Bore LWC SV 150 912.5
Buffalo Bore JHP SV 125 872.6
Buffalo Bore LSWCHP SV 158 866.9
Buffalo Bore JHP +P 125 1053
Buffalo Bore LSWCHP +P 158 985.8
Cor-Bon DPX +P 110 878.7
Cor-Bon JHP +P 110 919.9
Cor-Bon PowRBall +P 100 995.1
Cor-Bon Glaser +P 80 1194
Winchester USA LRN SV 150 733.1

From a LCP:
Ammunition Bullet Weight Velocity
Buffalo Bore HC 100 1110.4
Buffalo Bore JFN 95 1012.5
Buffalo Bore JHP 90 1077.6
Glaser Safety Slug 70 1190.7
Cor-Bon PowRBall 70 1210.3
Cor-Bon DPX 80 1021.1
Cor-Bon JHP 90 948.8
Remington JHP 88 877.5
Remington FMJ 90 827.2
Federal FMJ 90 849.6
Handload JHP 88 879.9


.380 must be crap.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I never ever said .380acp was "crap"...nor did I even say it was inadequate. I simply asked if it in danger of being antiquated by modern technologies. I still own several .380acp pistols.