Do modern micro-9mm pistols make the .380 obsolete?

[PlayboyPenguin]

Even though there seems to be a huge resurgence of .380 pistols in the past year I have started to wonder if the micro-9mm pistols of today have made the .380 a nearly obsolete round.

These days you can get a 9mm pistol in pretty much as small a package as most .380 guns. They are even smaller and lighter than the most popular .380 pistols from days past (IEPK, Bersa, Sig P232, etc.).

If you are not gaining much as far as getting a much smaller package does it make sense to give up the extra firepower? It seems to me that unless you just shoot the .380 significantly better than any micro-9mm gun you might as well go with the 9mm.

Thoughts?

Read More

 

[NoAim]

.380 is a good round for a pocket gun. And literally one that fits in your pocket. Basic dimensions are 3.5-3.9" tall by 5-5.5" long by 0.85" wide.

The only 9mm that I've heard of that can so the same thing is from Kahr with the PM9 and MK9, and it's still larger.

Who else makes one?

If you can go bigger in size, then there's no reason not to move up in power to at least a 9mm or .40. The .380 isn't that great of a round.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

.380 is a good round for a pocket gun. And literally one that fits in your pocket. Basic dimensions are 3.5" tall by ~5" long.

The only 9mm that I've heard of that can so the same thing is from Kahr.

Who else makes one?

Rohrbaugh for one...and another I cannot remember the name of...

 

[NoAim]

Rohrbaugh for one...and another I cannot remember the name of...

A pocket pistol for $1200 (I paid $300 for my Ruger).

Okay....

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

A pocket pistol for $1200 (I paid $300 for my Ruger).

Okay....

I paid $300 for a 71 Chevy Vega in 1984. What is your point?

 

[cwegga]

I paid $300 for a 71 Chevy Vega in 1984. What is your point?

I think the point is that budget concerns make .380 a relevant caliber. I would personally love to have a Rohrbaugh and plan to save for one eventually. Right now there is no way I could buy one.

Until you can get a micro 9mm for a competitive price they won't be relevant for most people. Guns like the PM9 are not small enough to fill the same niche. A cheap .380 is a better defense than a savings fund for a Rohrbaugh.

In a world where everyone had enough money and everyone was equally recoil insensative micro 9mms would obsolete the .380. In our world compromises stop that from being the case.

 

[twoclones]

A revolver is needed to save the caliber!
Ruger came out with the LCP in .380 and followed that with the LCR in .38 special. I wonder if they considered making the LCR in .380? An LCR .380 could be an 8 shot like the S&W TRR8 and would use moon clips like the S&W 625.

An 8 shot pocket carry revolver. Wow....

 

[PhysicsGuy]

A revolver is needed to save the caliber!
Ruger came out with the LCP in .380 and followed that with the LCR in .38 special. I wonder if they considered making the LCR in .380? An LCR .380 could be an 8 shot like the S&W TRR8 and would use moon clips like the S&W 625.

An 8 shot pocket carry revolver. Wow....

Imagine .380 with 100ft/s slower

 

[twoclones]

Imagine .380 with 100ft/s slower

Might make those Matrix bullet dodging moves more believable...

 

[d1esel]

The newest 9mm and 380's seem close in specs and in pictures. But in reality there is a very noticeable deference in CC. If you ever had a day when you decided not to carry because of discomfort or ability to conceal. Then a 380 becomes a very good option. A 380 is not the ideal round to stop an attacker. But I feel confident it's more effective then my fists.

 

[Cougfan2]

Playboy, the amazing thing is that you admit to buying a Chevy Vega!

 

[rodell]

Playboy, the amazing thing is that you admit to buying a Chevy Vega!

And overpaying for it!

Bob

 

[Bello425]

Rohrbaugh for one...and another I cannot remember the name of...

Probably also up there in price. I looked up the Rohrbaugh and I thought it looked like a Seecamp but in 9mm. Excellent looking/working pistol as per the review I read. I would love to have one, but will just have to go on the wish-list.

 

[Trlsmn]

Micro-9mm pistols are in demand for CCW and being filled by your more expensive Mfgs. I would not be at all surprised to see a Ruger LCPish 9mm to hit the market to fill the gap in market for a cheaper micro-9mm pistol.

 

[cyclesarge]

I think the point is that budget concerns make .380 a relevant caliber. I would personally love to have a Rohrbaugh and plan to save for one eventually. Right now there is no way I could buy one.

Until you can get a micro 9mm for a competitive price they won't be relevant for most people. Guns like the PM9 are not small enough to fill the same niche. A cheap .380 is a better defense than a savings fund for a Rohrbaugh.

In a world where everyone had enough money and everyone was equally recoil insensative micro 9mms would obsolete the .380. In our world compromises stop that from being the case.

Speaking of budget remember that ammo for the .380(when you can find it) cost almost twice the price of 9mm. If you plan on shooting much you'll quickly spend more on practice ammo than you saved in purchase price. The unfortunate part of spending extra money on practice ammo is there is NO resale value to that expense. If you HAVE to carry while wearing a Speedo the LCP is probably the better way to go. Me? I'll carry an MK9 and wear board shorts.

 

[enhance]

.380 is a good round for a pocket gun. And literally one that fits in your pocket. Basic dimensions are 3.5-3.9" tall by 5-5.5" long by 0.85" wide.

The only 9mm that I've heard of that can so the same thing is from Kahr with the PM9 and MK9, and it's still larger.

Who else makes one?

If you can go bigger in size, then there's no reason not to move up in power to at least a 9mm or .40. The .380 isn't that great of a round.

Kel-Tec PF-9 little longer than the Kahrs and a little skinnier. Coming in at $250-$350. 4.3" x 5.8" x 0.88"

 

[Bill Siegle]

I think the 380 will be around for a while even if smaller 9mms can be found. When guns get smaller, they become even harder to shoot with felt recoil increasing. I would think that a LCP sized 9mm would not be a fun toy to fire. Of course if it was totally reliable, I could see owning one but I dought the market would be huge. I remember how much the gun mags talked about the scandium 44mag that S&W made. Sure it was easy to carry but even the old time gun gurus did not have anything nice to say about them when firing 44mag ammo from them. I have seen dealers refuse to take them in on trade because they knew they'd have a helluva time moving them later due to the excessive recoil. I would bet that a similar issue would keep tiny 9 from hitting the market anytime soon. Well that and I bet there are some issues to overcome in getting a tiny 9mm to run reliably and not beat itself to death with a short lifespan.

 

[cwegga]

Speaking of budget remember that ammo for the .380(when you can find it) cost almost twice the price of 9mm. If you plan on shooting much you'll quickly spend more on practice ammo than you saved in purchase price. The unfortunate part of spending extra money on practice ammo is there is NO resale value to that expense. If you HAVE to carry while wearing a Speedo the LCP is probably the better way to go. Me? I'll carry an MK9 and wear board shorts.

That's fine, I already have things I keep in my cargo pockets and I already have slightly bigger guns that I wear IWB. Frankly as someone who regularly keeps things in my cargo pockets I'm not excited about the "draw" that would include me hunching over to reach far enough into my pocket that the top of my head points at my attacker. Now admittedly not all of my pants are quite that bad but they are all unacceptable in my opinion. I guess I could pull my pants up over my belly button to make it work but if I'm doing that I could hide just about anything I want IWB with the increased overlap.

Basically I agree with you guys that a 9mm is better and that there are multiple good 9mm that are slightly larger than the LCP/P3AT etc. But for the purpose of this thread that doesn't help. Playboy was asking about "micro" 9mm pistols not "small" 9mm pistols. And no neither the PM9/MK9 nor PF9 fill the same niche and obsolete the LCP for me. I bought a gun for back pocket wallet holster carry. You can argue saving now vs. saving on ammo but that is foolish. Being able to defend myself now vs. being able to defend myself later is obviously the best choice.

I just did the math, using $33 .380 and $21 9mm which seems to be about right from what I've seen around it would take me about 6 years to save the extra $800 between the LCP and Rohrbaugh...Admitadly I don't get out shooting as often as I should but that's pretty realistic to how much I shoot. I'll take defending myself now rather than waiting 6 years before I have an alternate carry gun.

 

[cyclesarge]

I would have to argue that considering the cost of ammo is NOT foolish. On the average .380 has about half the energy as a 9mm. I buy my 9mm practice ammo at WalMart box of 50 for $8.97 or $9.97 (I can't remember which) the .380 was $17.97 last time I looked, for a round that packs WAY less punch.

I'm sure the micro 9 (and even the sub-sub compacts like the MK and PM) won't obsolete the .380 because there will always be somebody that has to have the smallest lightest pistol, someone that loves PPK's, or someone that can only scape together $300 for a pocket pistol and won't shoot it enough to worry about the cost or availability of ammo. I guess I just don't get WHY gun folks would consider a .380 for self defense.

 

[TheDogFather]

Cyclesarge took the words out of my mouth. I think the ammo availability also needs consideration. 9MM is getting more plentiful here in my neck of the woods in NW Washington, due, in part, to a local sporting goods store getting their federal firearms license reinstated.