Do I want to SBR?

[Deebow]

Unless you go shooting with ATF agents, building an AR-15 pistol with a SIG brace is the way to go. The AR-15 pistol allows to do any number of things that you can do with an SBR, without all the hassles and expense and limitations associated therein.

The ATF says that if your intent is purchasing the SIG brace to avoid the tax stamp, THEN you are in trouble. If your intent is to use it as designed, then you are fine. But that is a road that if you go shooting with the ATF Agent from the local office, and you shoulder it, well now you get to talk about intent vs. use.

My guess is that at your local range or out shooting in the desert, no one is going to say shizznit to you about how you shoot your pistol. I would also lay down a bet that if you had it in the truck with you when the BG School/Church shooter showed up and you used it to send them to their final warm destination that the ATF wouldn't be questioning the manner in which you used the gun in dispatching evil.

My guess is that all the "constructive intent/possession" is only going to be a problem if the ATF is standing in your living room wanting to see exactly what you have in your safe, along with all the related paperwork.

My AR-15 pistol will have the folding buffer tube assembly and the SIG Brace, which is going to work perfect for what I want it for.

 

[CHLChris]

If your intent is to use it as designed, then you are fine.

But tell, please, who in the world actually wants to use the Sig brace as intended? Instead, if one's plan is to use the Sig brace as most people wink and use the Sig brace however they feel, sometimes even on their shoulder, then that person should plan to eventually go through the SBR process. It's not all that expensive or difficult.

 

[IronMonster]

You can do a lot of things with a "pistol" that you are not able to do with an SBR

 

[Deebow]

But tell, please, who in the world actually wants to use the Sig brace as intended? Instead, if one's plan is to use the Sig brace as most people wink and use the Sig brace however they feel, sometimes even on their shoulder, then that person should plan to eventually go through the SBR process. It's not all that expensive or difficult.

Perhaps a few people want to use the SIG brace as designed. And you are right, but maybe I should have put some "...." around those words.

I just think that going through the SBR process so you can prove to the government that you won't place any firearm against your shoulder that they think needs regulating without their approval is unnecessary. It is also pretty much unenforceable.

The ATF is mad that they let the cat out of the bag and now, the cat has run amok because they untied the bag.

And they are steamed that it is too late....

 

[CHLChris]

It's not too late. If you ask any retailer or manufacturer, AR pistols as a category, which boomed in a massive way when the Sig brace was announced, has now leveled off or even cratered. The ATF, with its new declaration concerning shouldering a pistol with a Sig brace, has decimated the pistol market. Sounds to me like they put at least most of the cat in the bag.

 

[Deebow]

I am not terribly panicked though. I don't need the brace to hit targets at 300 meters with an AR15 pistol.

Just put the buffer tube up to your face and brace it with a good cheek weld and you will be ringing the steel.

 

[ocarolan]

Rifles can be loaded and transported legally inside a vehicle in Oregon. The rifle can even be concealed in the vehicle. It does not have to be out in the open.

There is no problem in Oregon with having a fully loaded AR-15 in your car for self-defense.

Is Washington law different?

.

Just a comment, the relevant law is ORS 166.250 1(b). Lance is correct. It restricts concealed handguns in vehicles but does not mention other firearms.

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.250

However, realize the ORS 166.210 (5) defines handgun specifically as follows, independently of federal status: "designed to be aimed or fired otherwise than from the shoulder". At minimum that would seem to define (say) certain AOWs as a handgun.

It could also be stretched to include a firearm "designed" as a pistol but modified to a rifle. Even though 166.210 defines the term SBR and SBS, those terms are only used in 166.410, not 166.250. Overall an Oregon circuit court could easily interpret an SBR, SBS, or AOW in vehicle as a concealed handgun, given their history of unexpected weapon decisions.

http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.210

Furthermore the proximity of the SBR in the vehicle could potentially be construed as carried "concealed upon the person". Again, the court has already ruled a bagged gun (when carried) is upon the person. They could potentially make a similar ruling for (say) a shotgun in a seat-mounted scabbard. Best not to take chances here.

 

[wired]

Ive got several SBR's. Not a big deal. $200 was a bunch of money 1934,. Its not now.

For a form 1 engrave as small as the law allows. If you get tired of the SBR, take the lower off, fill in the engraving and sell it. Mine are engraved at the bottom lip of the mag well as small as legally allowed. Meets the letter of the law and I have to point it ou tto people. No big deal selling a lower although now that lowers cost $50 why bother? Let the ATF know about selling it if it makes you feel good. You don't have to. The ATF isnt going to come to your home and they can't walk in to stomp your kitty even if they felt like it without a warrant. You give up no rights owning NFA stuff. Having multiple uppers ( AR 15 ) is OK even if you have other AR's.

20 minutes with a copy of quicken willmaker, $10 to the Notary at the UPS store , 10 minutes filling out paperwork and 3 months waiting for a stamp. No big deal. You can go the traditional route and have the sheriff sign off if you like and get pics, fingerprints etc. Me, I don't want the sheriff knowing I exist.

The SIG brace ruling from the ATF is perfectly understandable. Shoulder it and its a SBR. Makes perfect sense. The Sig Brace is a butt stock masquerading as a whatever it is it is masquerading as. Screw that. Pay $200 and have something fully functional.